Did They Write About Jesus in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms?

then they should not regard the epistles as scripture either. it's the same thing, the "divinely inspired" teachings of church elders.

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then they should not regard the epistles as scripture either. it's the same thing, the "divinely inspired" teachings of church elders.

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Again the entire leadership of the Christian Church for the last 2000 years disagrees with you, but there are rabbis who are on your side.

yeah, i agree. it is funny.and yet, there's the isaiah verse, that doesn't say virgin, was fulfilled within two chapter, and regarded king ahaz, not jesus.also, you forgot luke. but i think he was just copying matthew's notes.

simple question. is the writing of church elders regarding their interpretation of scripture also scripture?if yes, both the epistles and the talmud are scripture. if no, neither is. they are the same thing.

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simple question. is the writing of church elders regarding their interpretation of scripture also scripture?

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No.

alright, but i'll hold you to this. if you ever quote paul, i'll quote this.

You can't have your cake and eat it too!In Message 30 you stated:

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The Hebrew word "Betulah" specifically means "virgin" so you can't say Hebrew doesn't have a word for it. However, the word "Almah" is the one used in this passage and it does mean "young woman." It is used I believe five or six times in the Old Testament and in all but two of those places it is translated "young woman" in most English translations, but in those two it is translated "virgin," one in this Isaiah passage and one in the Song of Songs.

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You disagreed with Arach that "almah" was incorrectly translated as "virgin." You say it is correctly translated as "virgin."If the word is accurately translated as "virgin" as you suggest, then there have been two virgin births.If you are saying that the word means "young woman" in the case of Ahaz, but "virgin" in the case of Jesus, then you open a very big can of worms and the Bible loses its value.

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Isaiah wrote of things he did not understand, but he was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

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God said he would put his words in the mouth of a prophet. God didn't say he would inspire the prophet.Mr. Smith has no way of knowing what Isaiah understood.

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Not according to me.

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Yes, according to you. You said the prophecy has double fulfillment. That means God had two sons.

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No, this is messianic prophecy and only messianic prophecy of Jesus.

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If it is messianic, then it applies to both children.To show otherwise, you need to show that the God of the OT expected mankind to recycle prophecies and that the meanings would change.All you've shown so far is that mankind says that they can reuse old prophecies.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

Of course Christians consider the Talmud, Torah and Tanaka as scripture. Jesus certainly did. He was a Jew.But you still have not supported your wild assumption that Jews considered Jesus a bastard or that the Talmud, Torah or ANY other scripture was modified to remove such statements (and it would be a very un-Christian thing to do). Afterall, Christians like Paul and the author of John were trying hard to demonize Jews.You made a claim, now how about supporting it?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Paul is an apostle, not a "church elder" and all the same Church leaders treat all the epistles a inspired scripture. What do you consider Nehemiah, a "church elder?"

There is only ONE virgin, and ONE child mentioned in Isaiah 7:14 -- and in Isaiah 9:6, and that is Jesus Christ and his mother. There is no OTHER child or virgin. The verse is messianic and has no reference to anything in Ahaz' or Isaiah's time.This message has been edited by Faith, 04-18-2005 11:37 PM

The Torah is our Pentateuch, the Tanakh is our entire Old Testament, so certainly we regard them as scripture, but the Talmud is simply rabbinical commentary and Jesus Christ did not regard it as inspired, nor has the Christian Church.

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Main Entry: apostle
Pronunciation: &-'p-s&l
Function: noun

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1 : one of an authoritative New Testament group sent out to preach the gospel and made up especially of Christ's 12 original disciples and Paul
2 : a person who initiates a great moral reform or who first advocates an important belief or system
3 : the highest ecclesiastical official in some church organizations

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an apostle is a church elder. i used that phrase because it was less specific. actually, yeah. do you consider his record of the rebuilding of jerusalem's walls the inspired word of god?

jar, as much as i hate to admit it, faith is right.the tanakh contains the torah, nevi'im, and ketuvim (the entire protest old testament). the talmud is something else. it's the oral law, a record of rabbinical discussions concerning the official readings of the text.my argument is that it is no more or less scripture than paul's epistles.

But it was that very Oral History, the interpretations of the Talmud that Jesus was discussing so very often. For example, the very first book (and there are books) of the Talmud concerns the Sabath, what exactly can and cannot be done, what qualifies as work, which was the very point Jesus was disputing when healing on the holiday.The Talmud has always been the arbitor or behavior covering everything from hygene to fire fighting.To say that the Talmud is not Scriptural is to lose much of what governed the day to day life, thinking and religion at the time of Jesus.I only know of one English translation of the Talmud and it is incomplete. If you know of others, please share with me.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

but it's not regarded as the law of god, or the word of god, to anywhere near the same calibre as the torah. it's still just the rulings (however official) of church leaders. much like paul's letters.both hold a lot of importance in their respective churches, and govern basic philosophies and day to day life.