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Author Topic:   Confusing mice with mousetraps
Peter
Member (Idle past 1509 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 69 of 90 (198478)
04-12-2005 6:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by tsig
02-23-2005 1:14 AM


I think you are right about a major hole at the
heart of ID, but think you may be wrong about what that
hole is.
It's not so much that living and non-living things are
radically or fundamentally different, but that there are NO
established criteria for detection of design that stand up
to any scrutiny.
Sorry to jump in late on this (I have read through most of the
thread).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by tsig, posted 02-23-2005 1:14 AM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by tsig, posted 04-13-2005 7:25 AM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1509 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 75 of 90 (203604)
04-29-2005 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by tsig
04-13-2005 7:25 AM


Re: Design Detection
All built of the same 'stuff', subject to the
same 'laws' of chemistry and physics ... they kinda
just exist and do what their chemistry demands.
Knowing about the designer isn't detecting design. It's
knowing that something was designed.
I doubt there IS any way of detecting design 'by inspection'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by tsig, posted 04-13-2005 7:25 AM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by tsig, posted 04-30-2005 6:30 PM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1509 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 81 of 90 (204588)
05-03-2005 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by tsig
04-30-2005 6:30 PM


Re: Design Detection
I don't believe that we can directly detect design
in objects that we KNOW have been designed by other
humans.
So commonality with the supposed designer is irrelevant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by tsig, posted 04-30-2005 6:30 PM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by tsig, posted 05-05-2005 4:54 AM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1509 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 83 of 90 (232507)
08-12-2005 6:07 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by tsig
05-05-2005 4:54 AM


Re: Design Detection
Yes.
Just by looking at an artifact we cannot say that
it was designed. We assume design based upon experience
of designed objects, but that's not the same as formally
determining that something was designed.
We assume that the great pyramid was designed since it conforms
to our knowledge of 'designed' buildings/structures. It is composed
of blocks (which we know are used by people in construction) and
possibly we can still detect some tool marks on the stones.
It's still an assumption not a strict determination. It requires
KNOWLEDGE that such things ARE designed.

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 Message 82 by tsig, posted 05-05-2005 4:54 AM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by tsig, posted 08-12-2005 5:43 PM Peter has replied
 Message 85 by ramoss, posted 08-12-2005 6:20 PM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1509 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 87 of 90 (233320)
08-15-2005 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by tsig
08-12-2005 5:43 PM


Re: Design Detection
You cannot prove that anything is designed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by tsig, posted 08-12-2005 5:43 PM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Brad McFall, posted 08-15-2005 7:41 AM Peter has seen this message but not replied
 Message 90 by tsig, posted 08-15-2005 8:43 AM Peter has seen this message but not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1509 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 88 of 90 (233321)
08-15-2005 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by ramoss
08-12-2005 6:20 PM


Re: Design Detection
I thought I already said that.
We infer design from knowledge of similar things that
we KNOW were designed.
Without knowledge of similar design there would be nothing
to (objectively) identify anything as designed or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by ramoss, posted 08-12-2005 6:20 PM ramoss has not replied

  
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