More Lies for God

Why are people intent on lying for God?I was browsing the web one day when I happened upon a site called ‘answers.org’ which looked like it deserved a quick once over.One item caught my eye, something about archaeology confirming the Bible yet again. Now as archaeology is germane to my area of study and I know that archaeology proves very little of the bible, I thought it deserved a look.Imagine my surprise when I read the following passage:"Ignorance of the facts concerning the trustworthiness of the Bible can be embarrassing for critics. For example, for many years doubters disputed the New Testament accounts concerning Pontius Pilate. No historical sources outside the New Testament mentioned him, so they considered him a fictional character. Then, in 1961, archaeologists unearthed an early first century theater inscription at Caesarea Maritima in Israel, dedicated from "Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea," to "Tiberius Caesar." What the Christians had preserved in scripture and the historic creeds ("suffered under Pontius Pilate), the liberal critics admitted in 1961."After reading this passage a few times, to make sure I was reading it correctly, I was totally lost for words!! (for once)The author was seriously saying that there were no non-biblical mentions of Pilate in any other historical sources until the inscription at Caesarea was found, and that this was another embarrassing example for bible critics.At the time I came up with three sources off the top of my head, Philo, Josephus and Tacitus who ALL mention Pilate, so what could this person be on about.Then I got it; maybe the author meant that there was no direct non-biblical evidence for Pilate, like a letter from Pilate or some archaeological evidence like the aforementioned inscription.There was a contact addy on the home page, so I sent off an e-mail asking for clarification of the passage cited whilst pointing out the references in Philo, Josephus and Tacitus.After over 7 weeks of waiting, I got a reply saying that they had noticed the error and I was quite correct in my assumption that it should have read that there were no archaeological sources until the find in 1961, and that they will edit the page as soon as possible.I thought, fine, these things happen, we all make mistakes, so I thought no more about it. Then guess what happened 3 months later, sorry no prizes on offer. I got an email informing me that my opinion that the bible is not an historically accurate book is wrong because. ROFLMAO Yes you guessed it, the Pilate inscription quoted verbatim from the very site I contacted!!Now in my original mail to them I said that a totally innocent reader of the site may actually quote this ‘evidence’ of Bible perfection to a sceptic and be shown how erroneous this claim is.So I fired off another email asking them if or when they are going to remove the misleading passage, so far I haven’t had a reply. It has now been over 6 months since I first informed this site, and today it remains unaltered.Why are people determined to lie for God?Notice the first line ‘Ignorance of the facts concerning the trustworthiness of the Bible can be embarrassing for critics’ It appears that the facts aren’t sensational enough for the owners of this site, they have to make ‘facts’ up to make the bible look good.One thing for sure, ignorance of the facts can be particularly embarrassing for the layperson that quotes moronic sites like this one when debating educated non-believers.Then they claim: ‘For example, for many years doubters disputed the New Testament accounts concerning Pontius Pilate’No references to who these ‘doubters’ are, probably because there weren’t any.Does anyone else have a similar story, that they informed some site of an error, had that error recognised by the site and then nothing was done about it?If members do have some examples, maybe a good idea would be for a group of us to target each site and keep emailing them about their error(s) until something is done?Anyway, I look forward to reading some similar stories, if any.Best WishesBrianP.S. I have just sent another email to remind the site owner about the lack of action regarding the erroneous claim.------------------
Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!

Sorry, meant to post this in Bible accuracy and inerrancy.{I'll get it moved - Adminnemooseus}[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 10-31-2002]

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Originally posted by nos482:
Originally posted by Brian Johnston:

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Why are people intent on lying for God?

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Did you know? It's not lying when you do it for god. The same as it isn't murder when you kill for god as well, it is called justice.

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LOL Oh yup forgot about that one.If I remember correctly, the Yorkshire Ripper tried to use the excuse that it was God that told him to murder 13 women, why is he in jail if god told him to do it?Is there some kind of test that can be done by the courts to determine if Sutcliffe was telling the truth or not?Surely courts believe in God, last time i was there I had to swear on the bible that I was telling the truth!!Bria------------------
Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!

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Originally posted by gene90:
[QUOTE][B]The same as it isn't murder when you kill for god as well, it is called justice.[/QUOTE]

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[/B]

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So what do you call it when the state kills a serial killer? Muder?

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It is called 'Capital Punishment.'Normally capital punishment is a punishment voted in as a law of the state by the members of that state by way of a democratic process.Also, the murderer is aware that the punishment for taking a life MAY mean that he/she will have their life taken away from them.Best WishesBrian------------------
Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!

quote:

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Originally posted by nos482:
Originally posted by Brian Johnston:

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It is called 'Capital Punishment.'

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Normally capital punishment is a punishment voted in as a law of the state by the members of that state by way of a democratic process.

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Also, the murderer is aware that the punishment for taking a life MAY mean that he/she will have their life taken away from them.

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Best Wishes

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Brian

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I think that capital punishment is murder as well. No nation can truly call itself civilized which kills its own citizens. And the death penality has never been an effective deterent against murder.

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The difference between the Laws of the State and those of god is that we choose our own and their enforcement is real, not some threat of being punished after one dies.

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**I agree that capital punishment is murder too, thats why, if there was ever a referendum in the UK for the reintroduction of the death penalty, I would vote against it.However, if I chose to remain in the UK I would have to accept the laws of the land and realise that if someone takes a life then they run the risk of losing theirs. I dont agree with a few of the laws in the UK but I have to accept them or move out.Also, regarding killing for God, it isn't just the threat of punishment after death, it is the promise of a reward for killing in certain faiths that also has to be considered as an incentive to murder for God.Brian------------------
Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!

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Originally posted by NimLore:
For one thing.. God does not need man in order to prove his existance... and the lies of man do not disprove God, even if someone is trying to lie for God..
One thing I will say to the extent of people lieing for God.. how about the evolutionists tampering with evidence? Even the greatest scientists use the writings of others as factual and if the writing that they used as factual proves to be erronous then so to will there theory unless of course it is designed to go against the argument.. yeah it happens.
I sure hope that those Christians fix the erronous passage too.

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And as to the comment on it bein ok to lie for God.. Outrageous!.. again God does not need man to prove him, there is proof enough.

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Hello NimLore, hope you are well.‘For one thing.. God does not need man in order to prove his existance...’**How can God prove his existence WITHOUT man? The followers of the Bible only know that there’s a God because he allegedly spoke to man through prophets. How would you know that God created the universe in 6 days if ‘Moses’ hadn’t written about it in Genesis? So, in fact, God does need man in order to prove his existence. Think of it this way, would you know to pray to Jesus if you hadn’t read about him in the bible?‘and the lies of man do not disprove God, even if someone is trying to lie for God.’**No one has to lie to disprove God, you first have to prove that God exists in order for anyone to try and refute it whether by lying or not. No one has proved God exists, so until they do, he remains a fantasy figure.’One thing I will say to the extent of people lieing for God.. how about the evolutionists tampering with evidence?’** Could you give an example please?‘Even the greatest scientists use the writings of others as factual’**Yes, only if they haven’t been proven false, unlike the owners of the website I wrote to.‘and if the writing that they used as factual proves to be erronous then so to will there theory’**Yes, this is how science works!! If the ‘facts’ used by a scientist are proven erroneous then the scientists has to change his theory, as his ‘facts’ have been rejected by his peers.‘unless of course it is designed to go against the argument’**Why would a scientist use ‘facts’ that are designed to go against their argument?.. yeah it happens.’**Example ?’And as to the comment on it bein ok to lie for God.. Outrageous!.. again God does not need man to prove him, there is proof enough.’** Such as ?Best wishes
Brian------------------
Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!

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Originally posted by Percipient:
Replying belatedly to the opening message of this thread, Creationists, like evolutionists, hold their beliefs sincerely. And Creationists, like evolutionists, make mistakes. And Creationists, like evolutionists, often are short of time to correct mistakes. And from personal experience I know that maintaining a website takes lots of time.

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Answers in Action looks like a tiny website with not many resources. Did your email actually reach Bob and Gretchen Passantino, authors of the Is the Bible Reliable article you criticized, or only a webmaster or secretary who had to contact them and wait for an answer and corrections?

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Anyway, I don't think people who make mistakes should be called liars. I don't even think people who make mistakes they don't correct should be called liars. Sloppy? Sure. Irresponsible? Of course. Liars? I don't think so.

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That being said, it is possible that the Passantinos are liars. Check out this report on the accuracy of their statements about their credentials: Long time Prominent Cultwatchers Lie about their Credentials, Investigation Reveals

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--Percy

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Hi Percy.**I do not doubt that MOST creationists and evolutionists hold their beliefs sincerely, and I did state in my original post that I am perfectly aware that mistakes can happen, we are only human after all. I know as well as the next person how difficult it can be to get time to correct mistakes, but 6 months to delete a passage from a web-site! As you maintain a website you know it only takes less than a minute to delete a passage from a page.The email I received as a reply was from Gretchen, if it was from the lady herself I have no way of knowing for certain, but it did have her name in the address and was ‘signed’ by her at the bottom of the email.Also, if it was a webmaster who was in control and awaiting an answer and confirmation, that confirmation was contained in the reply to me as it was acknowledged that an error was made and would be corrected to ‘no archaeological evidence’, so it was agreed an error was made and it would be changed.This is fine, no problem, but 4 months after the reply nothing has been done. I even informed them that Christians who read this might be innocently misled by this mistake, so they have a responsibility to their readers to provide accurate information.‘Anyway, I don't think people who make mistakes should be called liars. I don't even think people who make mistakes they don't correct should be called liars. Sloppy? Sure. Irresponsible? Of course. Liars? I don't think so.’**I totally agree that people who make mistakes should not be called liars we all make mistakes. I think that not correcting your mistakes doesn’t necessarily make you a liar either, as you said just sloppy, or irresponsible. However, I think that in the context of the article ‘Is the Bible reliable’ the Passantinos obviously set out to sensationalise the Bible, they try to make it something that it isn’t, an amazingly accurate historical record. If they removed the error then the bible loses a little ‘sensationalism’ in this particular article.You can see how this is set up by the opening line ‘Ignorance of the facts concerning the trustworthiness of the Bible can be embarrassing for critics’. So they clearly need a ‘fact’ to support this assertion. These two are obviously so poor at research that they couldn’t find a good example of the trustworthiness of the bible (the Mesha Stele or The Code of Hammurabi would have been good examples), so they made one up. They even said that ‘for many years doubters disputed the New Testament accounts concerning Pontius Pilate.’ This is a basic high school error, not referencing the source of a claim, but, again, their claim is designed to sensationalise the Bible.Personally I think that if someone makes claim X, and then acknowledge that claim X is an error, and continue to promote claim X, then that makes them a liar as they are aware that what they are claiming is incorrect.Granted, time should be given to correct the error, but 6 months? I still haven’t had a reply to the email I sent them on the same day that I started this thread.Thank you very much for the link you posted, I found it very interesting. It never fails to amaze me the number of ‘Christian Scholars’ who claim to have qualifications and/or membership of respected associations who are simply making it up.Thanks again for taking the time to post the link,Best Wishes
Brian------------------
Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!