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Author Topic:   Haeckels' Drawings Part II
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6525 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 9 of 94 (228507)
08-01-2005 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by randman
08-01-2005 12:43 PM


Evidence Please
Since we are moving the topic here, again:
Please provided evidence where a MODERN, PRACTICING, EVOLUTIONARY BIOLOGIST, is promoting this debunked theory?
Note the emphasis on modern. Alot has changed in science over the centuries.
Any answers?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by randman, posted 08-01-2005 12:43 PM randman has not replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6525 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 13 of 94 (228805)
08-02-2005 11:09 AM


130 years ago != current science!
Yaro, the faked drawings were used in most textbooks until 1998, according to one textbook author who corrected the problem after Richardson's studies.
MOST textbooks? Well. That's a lofty claim! Do you have any proof? If you could give me a textbook ISBN anywhere from 1990-1998, where Haeckles drawings are presented as actuall fact, I will belive you.
However, I highly doubt it considering that we know have such excelent photographs to show. Most Bio. Books I have seen use photos not drawings.
I would also further add that a Highschool Biology text is hardly the sort of material that shapes the minds of PRACTICING EVOLUTIONARY BIOLOGISTS.
Imo, the fact you guys have such a hard time recognizing the simple truth here, that the use of these drawings showed that evolutionists in presenting "facts" were presenting something that was not a fact, and did so for over 100 years is amazing.
You have as of yet, not provided any single shred of proof that the viability of these drawings lasted more than a few decades. Proove that these drawings have been claimed true for over 100 years, PROVE IT, or retract the claim.
Also, it does not matter if you call someone not a "creationist." I may not be a creationist under someone's definition, but clearly you have failed to prove evolutionists corrected Haeckel's errors.
LOL, don't make me laugh.
When are you going to back up your claim?
I'm not making any. You are. When are you going to back yours up?
Also, what an evolutionary biologist does in his work is not all that germane to my claims since my claim really deals with how evolution is taught and believed. A particular area of study, such as evolution of some species or whatever, is not what I was referring to. That may be real science, but the general arguments and the way evolution is presented and believed is the area I consider reflective of ideological indoctrination.
What the general populace belives and what actual scientists belive has allways been diferent.
Why were Haeckel's drawings in textbooks despite creationists denouncing them?
Which textbooks? Show me one, ISBN will suffice. See, you are making the claims not me.
Clearly because evolutionists failed to closely examine if what they claimed was factual was indeed factual.
Proof please, proof!
The drawings worked, very well, if the goal was to get people to believe.
Yes, they worked back in the 1800's, well done. Thank god we invented photography, genetics, advanced microscopes. Do you realize how silly this all is? YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT EVENTS 130 years ago!!!
They failed miserably if the goal was education.
That's something I frankly am surprised you guys don't get.
Ooo, another insult. What's the matter? No evidence?
This message has been edited by Yaro, 08-02-2005 11:33 AM

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by randman, posted 08-02-2005 11:32 AM Yaro has replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6525 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 16 of 94 (228819)
08-02-2005 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by randman
08-02-2005 11:32 AM


Re: 130 years ago != current science!
Yaro, if I thought you were honest and man enough to really do what you claimed in the following, I would dig it back up for you
So, your calling me a lier. Very nice, BRAVO!
As such, I suggest you review the old thread where textbooks were listed, and where one textbook author admitted to using drawings based on Haeckel's drawings, and that most textbooks did so. Usually, the drawings just had color changed but were identical in structure and feature.
These textbooks include college textbooks.
If this is the case, please link me to the proper thread and post number. If indeed, there is a textbook, ISBN and all that claims Haeckles drawings as 100% accurate, then you have the beginnings of a case.
After you prove this, then you will have to show how the MAJORITY of textbooks from that period also corrobarated the false claim. Once you have established that MOST textbooks did this... you have a case that science is being misrepresented.
You will have to take your research further now, to show that the same myth is being propagated at the college level, in particular Evolutionary Biology and Ebryology.
Then you have a case that evolutionists preach an outdaded idea.
So, if you could provide the name of the book and the ISBN, the link and post #, we will be on our way to establishing some modicrum of truth.
But somehow I expect you to continue to deny, deny, deny, and defend the indefensible, just like this was some sort of political campaign, refusing to admit to facts, and I think this is probably due, imo, to the indoctrination rather than education being the basic approach in getting people to believe in evolution.
Right... uhu... and you know me? way to ARGUE IN GOOD FAITH!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by randman, posted 08-02-2005 11:32 AM randman has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Yaro
Member (Idle past 6525 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 20 of 94 (228858)
08-02-2005 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by jar
08-02-2005 12:14 PM


Re: 130 years ago != current science!
I wonder if randman is going to drop off the face of the planet?

This message is a reply to:
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Yaro
Member (Idle past 6525 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 22 of 94 (228871)
08-02-2005 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by randman
08-02-2005 1:59 PM


Re: 130 years ago != current science!
So... ya.... um... Link, Post #, book title and ISBN please?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by randman, posted 08-02-2005 1:59 PM randman has not replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6525 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 40 of 94 (229232)
08-03-2005 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by randman
08-03-2005 2:00 PM


An Aside
Hey randman...
Do you see any compelling evidence in the ToE that contradicts Creationism/ID?
Further, if there were such evidence, what evidence would suffice for you as contradictory to ID?
The reason I ask is because there realy is no reason for discussion if there is nothing you see that could possibly contradict ID.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by randman, posted 08-03-2005 2:00 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 42 by randman, posted 08-03-2005 4:16 PM Yaro has not replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6525 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 46 of 94 (229355)
08-03-2005 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by randman
08-03-2005 4:34 PM


Re: An Aside
Hey randman, how many steps does it take red to turn into yellow?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by randman, posted 08-03-2005 4:34 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
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Yaro
Member (Idle past 6525 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 94 of 94 (261241)
11-19-2005 10:16 AM


2 things
1) Randma, can you prove creationists disproved haeckle? I belive other scientists did.
2) Not ALL text books feature these drawings. And I doubt ANY do today.

  
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