Akiane Kramarik

Since her vision appears to be New Age rather than Christian, it makes me wonder what the source of it is.

Sorry GDR. She is enormously talented, of course, but I don't read her productions as Christian in spirit. Far from it. And one of them is titled "the lost years of Jesus" which is a straight New Age preoccupation -- Christians know there were no lost years, He grew up as a typical Jew practicing carpentry and attending the observances in the temple. The Shroud of Turin is no evidence for me either. Even if it were Jesus' shroud it would have no specifically Christian meaning.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

She talks a lot about God, but although she paints Jesus, I have no sense that to her Jesus is God, that He died for her sins or anything like that, that is truly of the Christian faith.She sounds to me like many of the Christian-based cults sound, or Liberal Christians, or straight New Agers, or Unity followers, or perhaps Mormon like that woman who wrote the books a decade or so ago about her own experience of heaven, an out-of-body kind of experience, what was it "Surprised by the Light" or something like that?* The girl is enormously bright, enormously talented but I don't see true Christianity in her. * Oh yes, Embraced by the Light. Betty Eadie.
http://embracedbythelight.com/index.htm.These experiences of "heaven" have been rather common over the last two or three decades, visions and out-of-body experiences and so on, and such phenomena as the apparitions of "Mary". There is a lot of Christian symbolism involved, but it's not Christianity, as it often subtly, sometimes less subtly, contradicts the essentials of the faith, is simply not the true faith that is salvation from sin by faith in the sacrifice of Christ. It is the "doctrines of demons" that will "tickle the ears" of those who refuse the truth in the last days.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : To add footnoteEdited by Faith, : quote marks needed correction

You're a smart man, Omni, surely you can see it's a matter of truth. It's no service to anyone to support a lie. I've had to wonder about the source of some of my experiences too. It's not something to treat lightly. Christians should pray for the girl and her family to be truly saved. Or, just as likely, a version of her brand of "Christianity" would have burned those of my convictions at the stake, as they did many of those Protestants I most revere, who dared to defend the gospel of salvation by faith in the sacrifice and resurrection of Christ against the superstitions and sentimentality of Rome.But we're smarter these days. We know to pray for such people.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I don't see enough of Christ in myself either, Omni, so you're not wrong there. But I know I've got the doctrine right. Maybe if I stay away from EvC more, which I'm trying to do, I'll improve in the other departments too. Meanwhile, many people are being made victims of a false gospel these days, through various means including extraordinary experiences, "signs and wonders," and those they influence are no less victims and need to listen up.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

It's more an absence than anything direct. An absence of essential Christian truth about salvation, an absence of putting Christ at the center of experience, an absence of the idea of needing salvation from sin -- in short an absence of the cross on which he died for our sins. Her Jesus is no more than a man at least as presented on that site. If she sees him as God it is odd that isn't central to her vision. Anyone can talk about God. Even the demons believe in God as scripture says. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

She claims to have been taken to heaven, Rand, and I am VERY leery of such claims, having heard lots of false doctrine supposedly "given" to the person in such experiences.{Edit: By the way, I'm not saying anything against the girl in saying this. She's a victim as are all the others who have had such experiences. The experiences are no doubt real and they believe them. She's a child and was a VERY young child when she had this experience. I am not doubting that she had a genuine supernatural experience that she believed to be an authentic experience of heaven. I am sure she is not lying or inventing any of this.}But also, to respond to your theory, playing down the truth of the cross in order to sell art is very questionable in itself. The cross is an offense, that we know from scripture, but playing it down is not the Christian response to that fact. And if she really was in heaven, there is no way Christ the sacrificed and risen Lamb of God would not have been impressed on her as the center of Christian faith.Her doctrine IS generic -- this doctrine that was given to her in "heaven" -- very watered down in its essence, in order to avoid offense to unregenerated people, but I doubt this is a mere front. We are seeing a lot of this pseudoChristianity these days, more and more it seems, all part of the general building up of a false gospel of Christ that is nice and inoffensive and can't save anybody.{Edit: Also, it isn't a matter of giving HER time. She isn't selling herself. Adults are selling her. Adults could set her straight. I would suspect that there are many who contact the site to object to the version of Christianity presented there, but are ignored.}I'm very sure of my judgment here, but of course, wait and see. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : grammar correction

What the "Lost years of Jesus" idea is all about, whether Akiane is cognizant of it or not, is the claim that he learned his doctrine outside the traditions of the Old Testament. The very idea comes from that claim, so somehow or other she is expressing that, even if without her own knowledge of it. {edit: Brian states this idea in his Message 26.She isn't portraying a particular theory about that, but the painting gives the usual generic idea of God as a sort of dispenser of "love and truth" without any particular content to it -- actually he's not even portrayed as the giver of love and truth, but "reaching out for" it. Very New Agey sentimental fuzzy idea of love and truth. "Galactic hand?" -- this is not a Hebrew concept. It also implies a God tied to the cosmos rather than the God who made the cosmos. This is not the love and truth that sent Jesus to die for us.}The Christian gospel is that Jesus is God Himself, God as portrayed in the Old Testament, who became incarnate as a human being, in order to be the propitiation of our sins in both his perfect sinless life and in his sacrificial death on the cross, to reverse the condemnation of the Fall in Eden.A great deal of what passes for Christianity leaves out those essentials, while focusing on a generic God of love, on nature, on Jesus as a man, on some of his teachings and sayings, and so on. But none of that is Christianity. Christianity is the gospel good news that God Himself came and lived as a man and died for our sins. There is NOTHING of that in Akiane's paintings or poetry. I certainly hope that as she grows up she will come to learn it.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Nobody ever considered those years "lost" until it became a New Age notion to place him outside his Jewish context for the unreported period of his life. Just put "The Lost Years of Jesus" into Google and you will get all the New Agey references to the idea. Ol' Elizabeth Clare Prophet is in there along with all the other occult practitioners. It's not a Christian way of talking. Yes, Jesus is perfectly human. He is the God-Man as traditional Christianity says, both perfect God and perfect Man. That commonplace message didn't require God to become man. Many of the sages of the world have said that much. Even ordinary people say that much. Parents tell children that much, going all the way back. Oh, far from it. All the "gods" (fallen angels) are far from sinless. But the one true Creator God of course is sinless. However, Jesus was sinless as man, not as God, the first man of the New Creation, taking the place of the first man of the Old Creation, Adam, who could have remained sinless but didn't. He's the only one who could have remained sinless. Nobody else. Perfect nonsense. Trivializes God becoming man. God became man because only He could live a sinless life and die sinless as the perfect spotless unblemished sacrifice, the Lamb of God, only He could be the propitiation for the sins of humanity inherited since Adam. Not judging the work as art, but just as the expression of raw talent at a very early age, it is definitely extraordinary.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

The striking thing about her story is that she was not taught anything about God in her family, but had this experience of "heaven" when she was only four, and from that point on believed in God and influenced her family to believe. This is not ordinary kid stuff of the sort you are describing.

Do you have some reason for not believing this? Or, what exactly about the story don't you believe and why?In any case, you can't assume something other than what was told is the truth, as would be the case if the heaven story is simply ignored.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Just because she makes money doesn't mean she is a fraud or any of it is a lie. You have to come up with real evidence for fraud, not the fact that her stuff sells. Benefit of the doubt, charity charity.

That kind of skill can be developed with training and she says her family is all artistic so I'm sure she got some training. But for a child to develop it on her own to that degree at that age would be very unusual.It doesn't make it as art, I agree.I have to guess the people willing to spend that kind of money are infatuated with her religiosity and the story of her religious experience at the age of 4.

According to you, but not according to her. And children do know the difference, even little children. Well, yes, but she didn't claim to see Christ in "heaven" as far as I know. In fact she doesn't describe that experience anywhere that I've been able to find. She's not painting her experience, she's painting the religious ideas she thinks are compatible with the experience. Very New Age. Whatever she experienced it was not heaven or God. If it's fraud it would have to be her parents, not her, and it's hard to see how they could have successfully taught her to carry on such a deception. Well, I agree that the whole thing is packaged to sell to the lowest common denominator with a religious mentality of some sort or other. Mindnumbingly cliche'd really. But this to my mind would fit with a supernatural NONdivine experience. Yes. She's got mechanical ability rather than artistic vision, but it's that ability that wows people in one so young. Well I think unfortunately it was likely demons influencing Akiane too. Apparently you missed some of my earlier posts. To which others have objected for that very reason. Lots of evidence. From people who have had such experiences. They, just as we, know the difference between a real experience and what our imagination is capable of. Brian Brian Brian, I know you knew it was imaginative play even then. Did you ever claim to have visited this real place and brought back knowledge from it? No.