Congress goes off the deep end

I fine opinion that I might only disagree with in the level of importance. I don't know how to solve that problem, but I wouldn't want them killed. I don't plan on it either.

Well I found a Reagan quotes page with it on there.

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"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

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I haven't seen the quote in context. You think this quote means that conservatives should distrust the government?I thought I'd go OT for a sec and post some other quotes from Reagan form that page that I thought you would disagree with, and maybe not put so much weight in Reagan's quotes, not that I have a problem with them.

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"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."

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"I have wondered at times about what the Ten Commandment's would have looked like if Moses had run them through the U.S. Congress."

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“While America’s military strength is important, let me add here that I’ve always maintained that the struggle now going on for the world will never be decided by bombs or rockets, by armies or military might. The real crisis we face today is a spiritual one; at root, it is a test of moral will and faith.”

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And finally,

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"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so."

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When you first typed 'enemies' I was thinking of enemies of the country and that it is not that bad. That could be a big problem. I'm thinking more smear campaigns However, wouldn't exposing stuff, from personal enemies, they've found through warrantless wire taps show that they were breaking the law that these warrentless wire taps are for immenent attacks only?But, honestly, I can see how this power could be abused. Is this potential abuse a bigger reason for your opposition of this legislation than the rights violations?

I don't think the bolded part is accurate. He has to notify an intelligence committee, which is half Democrat, and whose jurisdiction includes:

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to provide vigilant legislative oversight over the intelligence activities of the United States to assure that such activities are in conformity with the Constitution and laws of the United States.

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To me, it looks like the group has been determined and also has oversight. He also has to explain the reason and names the individuals and groups involved. I guess he has to explain this to the intelligence committee. Its up to whoever he has to explain to, to judge how reasonable his belief is. I don't know what happens if the belief is found to be unreasonable. I think they feel this is a neccessary step to successfully defending ourselves from terrorism. I'm not really afraid of them spying on me. I don't really feel like I've lost much in the way of my rights, on the day-to-day level. I can, however, understand the problems that people have with this. I don't know if I believe them that this is neccessary and I've already admitted that it looks like it is giving the president too much power. Nevertheless, I think I can comfortably say that people are overreacting about this.

Sorry to just blow you off on this, as it looks like you put some time and effort into you post, but I don't think pursuing this discussion is on topic. I also have some work to do here at work and don't have much time left for posting today.

It says he has to notify the intellegence committees. I don't think one member of a committee is the committee. You're trying to make this look worse than it is. Thats not the oversight we were typing about. Its like your moving goalposts now. Their jurisdiction specifically mentioned their oversight. They could change it again. That is not it.This discussion is really starting to bore me. I don't really feel like justifying every clause in this legislation to you.

I probably won't.Doesn't look interesting to me. Plus, I'm not gonna want to take the position of defending the use of torture.

Especially when they're unrealistic. It must be nice.

Yes, that is exactly what I was saying [/sarcasm] The Golden Rule is not going to work against terrorists.Although, I could say that if I was the terrorist who knew where the bomb was, I would want the enemy to torture me to find out where the bomb is so all those people wouldn't die, so technically, I would be doing onto them what I would want done to me Lets not get into a torture discussion on thread about wiretaps.

I don't care. You'd probably last about a minute before you hung up out of complete boredom.

I don't know anything about that. I guess if committees aren't working then they need to be changed but that is leading the discussion off topic as well, and another topic that I wouldn't want to discuss. /yawn /nodI'm all math and science. I don't know much about social studies and nothing about politics. Well, if it passes it passes and they'll have the power so it doesn't matter. But it still has to pass. Again, I just feel like you're overeacting. That's true. Well, not so much the thinking part, its more of the doing that I'm not interested in.I'll let the government run the country. Most of the stuff that goes on doesn't affect me at all anyways, I'll just continue running the rat race, living the American dream, yippee.

I didn't have anything better to do. Besides, you called out for an explanation and nobody replied so I thought I'd give it a shot. The last election was the first time I voted, and not because of age restriction.I just don't feel that affected by the government. I do whatever I want, whenever I want, with no problems. The only time I look to the government is when I need an authority. That depends on what you mean by well. I bet a lot of poiticians wish the people were less of a part and less interested, so they could get away with more. I guess that would not be functioning well by your definition but it would be functioning well for the politicians.

From what I read on wiki, almost it the key word there.I need to read more. I like positivism, dislike rationalism. Its late for me, I'll read up late. That was obvious to me a while ago, and part of the motivation for becoming involved in this thread. I'll let them get away with what they want as long as i'm getting away with what I want. When shit starts affecting me is when I'll get involved. I have a friend from high school that is an active politician but that's it. My scientific career has not brought me close to people in politics. Who can? I've only lately realized the truth that Jesus spoke, and I realize I have a lot to learn. Enjoying I most certainly am.

So... from the last post and Oh... from this one. You really like putting words into people's posts, don't you?I'll reply the same.

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Yes, that is exactly what I was saying {/sarcasm}

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They must be wrong then. I've had my rights denied too, by the police. That still hasn't turned me liberal. I don't get it. But it doesn't seem like that in reality.