Congress goes off the deep end

Holy...holy shit. My eyes must be deceiving me.So, in other words, in order to maintain the moral high ground, one does not actually have to have it, but only the illusion that one has it? It's okey-dokey to do dishonest, illegal or otherwise "bad" things as long as you are able to hide it? Wow. Just wow.As for the rest of your post, this is the only other thing I feel the need to reply to: They are in office in order to serve the people and to be our voices in the government. How in the hell can they be our voices or even pretend that they are serving in our interests if they do not have to answer to us or explain their rationale? They are not our parents. They are us.

Sure it is.And I apologize for not being more clear, which made it seem like I was misrepresenting you. I should have added "in the eyes of the world" to "maintain moral high ground." However, I am concerned with actually doing the right thing, not just the image of doing so, so my reply, to me, seemed complete at the time. So, if you were being tortured would you always tell the truth? Or would you tell your captor anything to make it stop?Additionally, how is one sure that the person they are torturing actually knows anything? How is one sure that they are indeed "the enemy?" Well, allowing for oversight and conducting fair trials is one way. If the rules can be made up as they go along(1) and they are not accountable to any other governmental body(2), unless Congress decides to revoke or amend this legislation, then how could we possibly know these things and how can someone who is detained, tortured and "tried" have any recourse?(1)Sec.949a of the Military Comissions Act of 2006: (2)Under Section 6 of the Military Comissions Act of 2006: Section 1005(e) of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 establishes the United States Court of appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit as having "exclusive jurisdiction to determine the validity of any final decision" of the tribunals, HOWEVER: AND:

You may be right that discussion of the legislation that overrides the Geneva Conventions and the right of habeas corpus is off topic because the OP pertains to the wiretap legislation, but I believe that the topic may be stretched to include the general hacking away of rights perpetrated by the Bush Administration and its pet Congress in recent years since they are all "answers" to the same threat and the wiretap legislation can be tied into the Military Comissions Act via warrantless wiretaps' new role as permissible evidence.If Kuresu and/or the Admins disagree I will open a new topic regarding this particular example of Congress going "off the deep end" and I would hope that you will then address my post. That's OK. If we are permitted to continue this here, take your time. If I am directed to take it elsewhere, you will have plenty of time because I will then be constructing a much more thorough OP.

Very well stated Schraf.Those of us active in the Peace and Justice movements are not suffering under the delusion that we are going to acheive total harmony among the peoples of this world or that human suffering will be completely eradicated. What we are working towards is the lessening of injustice and violence and speaking out against the people/governments who perpetrate such acts because we feel that if we do not then we are just as bad as them (if not worse, because, unlike them, we recognize the actions as abhorrent)."To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men." - Abraham Lincoln"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." - Martin Luther King, Jr."Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.

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Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

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Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

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Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Jude.

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Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestierte.

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When the Nazis arrested the Communists,
I said nothing; after all,
I was not a Communist.
When they locked up the Social Democrats,
I said nothing; after all,
I was not a Social Democrat.
When they arrested the trade unionists,
I said nothing; after all,
I was not a trade unionist.
When they arrested the Jews, I said nothing; after all,
I was not a Jew.
When they arrested me, there was no longer anyone who could protest. "

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-Pastor Martin Niemoller

What's even more sad, holmes, about CS's apathy is that he would deny me my right to get married to the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with because he might abuse the system to get benefits for his BMX buddy and therefore destroy the meaning of a WORD for him, but he doesn't care two shits about people being tortured or their constitutional right to habeas corpus being taken away or their privacy being violated, etc etc.And the religious right conservatives are worried about this country going down the drain because I"M GAY????Give me a frakkin break! (yes, I'm a BSG geek )

Of course not. I would think that someone with traditionally conservative ideals could do no such thing, so you are left with the Bush worshippers who probably don't even understand the question and people, like CS, who just stick their head in the sand. Hey, you may be on to something, here. Maybe they just aren't seeing it in that light, yet. At any rate, their silence is interesting indeed. I know, I know. I'm just too busy luring young, innocent, straight girls into my web of sin. I felt the same apprehension going in because, to be quite frank, the majority of SciFi shows are pretty subpar in all areas except special effects (and even some of the shows are lacking in this) and the original series makes me cringe. However, I am completely addicted to this new series because of the excellent writing, outstanding cast, great cinematography and the intellectual and moral challenges it presents to the viewer. This is what true Sci-fi is all about - timely political commentary (not forced down your throat, but allowing you to ponder and conclude for yourself what you would do, feel, think in such a situation) wrapped up in a fantastical, entertaining and gripping shellYou really should either buy the DVD's or download the series on a BitTorrent client (Hey the show is free to watch, so why not free to download).Sorry Admins, I know this last bit is OT. That's the last of the BSG discussion