Human Programming

I think a good education in science can 'wipe the slate clean', so to speak type. I think it did for me (I was atheist in college). In my opinion, you're not suppose to be certain or 'for sure' about your religion as that would undermine faith, which, for some reason, is an important part (along with hope and love) Hey, that sounds a lot like a science education. You seem to leave out the possibility that a scholar can question the validity of a book written hundreds of years ago and then believe in it. After I was atheist a while, I started looking into the various religions of the world and when I got back around to reading the Bible (New Testament) again, I realized that Jesus really did know what he was talking about. He spoke so much truth that I have no problem believing that everything he said was true, including being God. I think of myself as a person who has realized what you are typing about in the OP and then reconsidered christianity and came to the conclusion that it IS true. Any chance? Of course...I certainly accept it as a possibility. But being aware of it and actively considering it, I conclude that I have not accepted christianity just becuase that is the way I was raised, but because I critically investigated it and found that it is the truth.

Yes, I typed that I came to the conclusion that it IS true, meaning that it is my opinion that it is true, or that I think that it is true, not that it is certainly true. The latter. My research was reading the New Testament.I think that my science education and atheism freed me from the biases of being raised christian and allowed me to view the Bible from a new perspective. Like Gasby said, a simple physics class will teach you that the Bible is not infallable. I think this 'fresh start' helped me find a faith that was stronger than the one had I received from being raised christian.

Does this belief make you agnostic?Agnostic AND thiestic, I guess that's possible, yeah?You really think that God is unkowable by any one(anyone)? Don't you think that God is capable of making herself known to someone?

So your theism trumps agnosticism? I mean, your belief fits the definition of an agnostic(that god is unknowable). Does being agnostic mean that you can't believe that god exists? Oh, you just mean that you can't know god in the same sense that can't really KNOW anything. Its really not that fantastic of a claim as I originally read it.But for argument's sake, an omnipotent (which I realize we haven't agreed upon) God would have the power to make you really KNOW something, by definition, even if you couldn't test it...shit, even if it wasn't true. Omnipotence is a prett lame concept, logically, though. But if you don't believe god is omnipotent...

This really is a stupid argument to be having. You'd be able to tell because of god's omnipotence. She could just use her magic powers to make you know, in any sense of the word know, that's omnipotence for ya.Seriously though, can you be both anostic and theistic? That's what I really wanted to discus. I think you can and that we both are both. I don't think we can prove god, or certainly know god does or not exist (agnostic) but I believe he exists (thiestic).

and I think that if we are to be honest, we must acknowledge that God could let us know she exists.I guess I'm not so agnostic afterall

What!?How can you bring probability into the existance of god? let alone if he is understandable..... Nope, not me. Of course its a product of culture.

Then we disagree on what evidence is... Aren't everyone's beliefs invented by themselves if they differ in any way from another belief?What is your point?That God doesn't exist? That's not a very hard conclusion to come to.

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ABE: Which is more probable, "X" or 50%?If you don't know the probability of X then how can you compare?Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

Aren't everyone's beliefs invented by themselves if they differ in any way from another belief? I think programming can have a huge effect, some beliefs are hard to determine if they were a product of programming or not, some are pretty obvious. What do you think? I think schraf is looking at the beliefs deemed obviously products of programming and then saying that if you have that same belief then, most likely, it is a product of your programming.

The majority of the people believe god exists. That, itself, is evidence, although admittedly, it isn't good evidence. I'd consider them, individually, as a little bit of evidence that god exists but I also consider them, collectively, as a little bit more evidence that god exists. Again, its not what I would consider solid or scientific evidence, but, to me, it is evidence nonetheless.

But you can have beliefs that you have not invented, yourself. I don't think you have to beleive every single little thing the church says in order to be considered Catholic. Your example is fine. I certainly became christian again at one point in my life, and I call myself catholic becuase it is the way I was raised, not becuase I follow every rule to the T. I don't think I really understand your 'opposite way' situation, or how honest it is. How about the belief in god, in general, or more specifically, the belief in one particular religion. People who are raised (programmed) religion X tend to stay with (believe) religion X. Yes, if I'm understanding correctly (IIUC?), that is the argument, but that because the majority of people raised muslim remain muslim, not just one person such as your neighbor is.

I dunno....faith, perhaps? Well I specifically avoided making that argument as it is false. Sure I have, I question myself a lot. I disagree. Something that is evident to me, is evidence for me, even if it isn't evidence for anyone else. It just isn't evidence in its broadest sense.

Thats funny. I've been in arguments on this board where atheists have claimed that you cannot choose to believe something. They say that if you can choose to believe in god, then I could easily change my belief and choose to not believe in god. I cannot make this choice because I do believe in god (although I do think that this is by choice). My inability to choose to not believe in god showed that I cannot choose a belief, in general.

What do you do? (if you don't mind answering)Just curious.

Ok, I can accept that definition WRT choosing a belief.