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Author | Topic: Eyewitness To Jesus? The Gospel Authors | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4024 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
Hi, Ram, I`ve never been a great fan of paleography except in a general sense. In times of widespread illiteracy and lack of quick communication between disparate communities, I imagine that schools or teachers of scribes might tend to retain their system over an extended period. The Qumran Scrolls were dated across two centuries paleographically, and even C14 dating with its margin of error couldn`t bring the dates much closer. Maybe the push for changes in writing, layout, etc. might have been instigated by major powers near the heart of activity and the results trickled down to isolated communities?
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
I believe the point of the essay I made is that trying to date the P52 fragment to be the early part of the second century is showing a strong bias of the researchers... because it isn't accurate enough to make the determination.
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Equinox Member (Idle past 5172 days) Posts: 329 From: Michigan Joined: |
Does anyone know if p52 has been C14 dated? That would be very useful information. If late, it would dispel any 125 CE speculations, and if early (asy 135 CE), though it wouldn't prove an early date (since old paper may have been used), it would support an early date, since I don't see much reason for someone back then to try to make it appear old to C14 dating (which they of course weren't aware of).
-Equinox _ _ _ ___ _ _ _You know, it's probably already answered at An Index to Creationist Claims... (Equinox is a Naturalistic Pagan - Naturalistic Paganism Home)
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Equinox Member (Idle past 5172 days) Posts: 329 From: Michigan Joined: |
Hey, I just looked up the approximate dates of the oldest manuscripts we have from each gospel, and both Mk and Lk don't have anything until around 250. So our earliest dates for these must come from quotes by church fathers, which are notoriously loose. I wonder what our strongest evidence is supporting the text of these gospels as early as possible?
-Equinox _ _ _ ___ _ _ _You know, it's probably already answered at An Index to Creationist Claims... (Equinox is a Naturalistic Pagan - Naturalistic Paganism Home) |
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Juraikken Member (Idle past 6219 days) Posts: 82 From: Winnetka, CA Joined: |
wait 250 AD right? lol i doubt the desciples who wrote the gospel lived that long after the death of christ.
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MUTTY6969 Member (Idle past 6221 days) Posts: 65 From: ARIZONA Joined: |
That’s the point...it is believed that not all of the authors were eyewitnesses.
Steve Rushin: "By the age of 18, the average American has witnessed 200,000 acts of violence on television, most of them occurring during Game 1 of the NHL playoff series."
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Juraikken Member (Idle past 6219 days) Posts: 82 From: Winnetka, CA Joined: |
MTTY6969 writes: That’s the point...it is believed that not all of the authors were eyewitnesses. but why do you trust the date and not the authors words? what if they wrote it right after Jesus' death?
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 7.6 |
but why do you trust the date and not the authors words?
Cause anybody can write anything they want. Just a monkey in a long line of kings. If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! *not an actual doctor
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3628 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
Like the avatar, Doc.
Good point, too. AbE: What sfs contributed to this thread is exceptional. We're lucky to have this. ___ Edited by Archer Opterix, : see note.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: Can you tell me where in Mark the author claims to be a disciple ? Or gives a date where he wrote ? Or even tells us his name ?(And before you refer to the title, I want something actually written by the author - the title naming "Mark" was added later, NOT written by the author).
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Juraikken Member (Idle past 6219 days) Posts: 82 From: Winnetka, CA Joined: |
when i write something i dont always put "i wrote this" or anything of that sort nor do i write in the third person
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Juraikken, what do you know about how ancient texts are attributed?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
So in other words, "what the author wrote" has no direct bearing on either the author's identity or the dating of the Gospels referred to.
So why bring up the subject ?
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
It is too small a sample to risk destroying it further with carbon dating.
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DD2014 Junior Member (Idle past 3918 days) Posts: 17 From: Cali, USA Joined: |
quote: Source Edited by AdminModulous, : No reason given.
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