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Author Topic:   Sun-Earth-Moon Gravity
mpc755
Member (Idle past 6101 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 07-29-2007


Message 49 of 119 (413234)
07-29-2007 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Taz
05-28-2007 2:24 AM


quote:
The point of center of gravity of this system in turn orbits around the center of gravity between earthmoon-sun system.
If that is the case, then shouldn't the sun's gravitational force on the earth-moon system be balanced and have no effect on the earth's tides?

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 Message 47 by Taz, posted 05-28-2007 2:24 AM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Chiroptera, posted 07-30-2007 8:50 AM mpc755 has replied

  
mpc755
Member (Idle past 6101 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 07-29-2007


Message 51 of 119 (413320)
07-30-2007 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Chiroptera
07-30-2007 8:50 AM


If the Sun is interacting with the Earth-Moon system as a single entity, then it should be interacting with it as a whole.
Is there a contradiction with saying the Sun interacts with the Earth-Moon system as a single entity, but will still have an effect on the Earth's tides? If the sun can still impact the Earth's tides, then isn't it interacting with the Earth as a single entity?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Chiroptera, posted 07-30-2007 11:08 AM mpc755 has replied
 Message 56 by Taz, posted 07-30-2007 8:20 PM mpc755 has not replied

  
mpc755
Member (Idle past 6101 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 07-29-2007


Message 53 of 119 (413337)
07-30-2007 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Chiroptera
07-30-2007 11:08 AM


Has anyone come up with a reason why gravity exists, or how it works?
My crack-pot theory is that all objects displace space, and it is this displaced space that causes objects to remain in orbit around one another.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Chiroptera, posted 07-30-2007 11:08 AM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by NosyNed, posted 07-30-2007 12:21 PM mpc755 has not replied
 Message 55 by Chiroptera, posted 07-30-2007 1:14 PM mpc755 has replied
 Message 57 by Taz, posted 07-30-2007 8:23 PM mpc755 has replied
 Message 69 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 07-31-2007 8:09 PM mpc755 has replied

  
mpc755
Member (Idle past 6101 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 07-29-2007


Message 58 of 119 (413437)
07-30-2007 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Chiroptera
07-30-2007 1:14 PM


In the language of Einstein, it is simply the nature of space-time to be curved. Mass is simply the measure of how curved a region of space-time is, but as far as I know no one has come up with a reason why space-time should be curved.
Space-time is curved because the space that would exist where the object is has been displaced. The object's mass displaces space. For example, the Earth displaces space. This displaced space is what keeps the Moon in orbit around the Earth.

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 Message 55 by Chiroptera, posted 07-30-2007 1:14 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Taz, posted 07-30-2007 10:11 PM mpc755 has replied
 Message 64 by Chiroptera, posted 07-30-2007 11:10 PM mpc755 has not replied

  
mpc755
Member (Idle past 6101 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 07-29-2007


Message 60 of 119 (413448)
07-30-2007 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Taz
07-30-2007 8:23 PM


Tazmanian Devil writes:
< !--UE-->But I doubt it would help us understand the universe any better if we answer because it is god's will. Catch my drift?
Not sure why you went here. I am not religious.

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mpc755
Member (Idle past 6101 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 07-29-2007


Message 61 of 119 (413450)
07-30-2007 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Taz
07-30-2007 10:11 PM


What's wrong with the conventional view?
From a couple of posts, including one of yours, there is no conventional view. No one knows why gravity exists.

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 Message 59 by Taz, posted 07-30-2007 10:11 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by sidelined, posted 07-30-2007 10:28 PM mpc755 has replied
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mpc755
Member (Idle past 6101 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 07-29-2007


Message 63 of 119 (413459)
07-30-2007 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by sidelined
07-30-2007 10:28 PM


Are you asking why gravity exists or do you actually wish to know how gravity works?
I'm not sure what you are asking?

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 Message 62 by sidelined, posted 07-30-2007 10:28 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by sidelined, posted 07-30-2007 11:19 PM mpc755 has replied

  
mpc755
Member (Idle past 6101 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 07-29-2007


Message 66 of 119 (413528)
07-31-2007 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by sidelined
07-30-2007 11:19 PM


I am asking How does gravity exist.

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 Message 65 by sidelined, posted 07-30-2007 11:19 PM sidelined has replied

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mpc755
Member (Idle past 6101 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 07-29-2007


Message 71 of 119 (414036)
08-02-2007 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by AnswersInGenitals
07-31-2007 8:09 PM


Re: Cracked pots are mutually attractive.
gravity would be repulsive
Gravity is both attractive and repulsive, depending upon how far two objects are from each other. The sun displaces more space outside the earth than it does between the earth and sun, so that is why the earth stays in orbit around the sun. If the earth were further away from the sun, then their spacial displacements would cause the earth to be pushed away from the sun. That is why we see an accelerating, expanding universe.

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 Message 69 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 07-31-2007 8:09 PM AnswersInGenitals has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 08-02-2007 4:40 PM mpc755 has replied

  
mpc755
Member (Idle past 6101 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 07-29-2007


Message 72 of 119 (414038)
08-02-2007 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by AnswersInGenitals
07-31-2007 8:42 PM


Re: In the beginning, god created umbrellas.
Casimir force
Thanks.

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mpc755
Member (Idle past 6101 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 07-29-2007


Message 74 of 119 (414088)
08-02-2007 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by AnswersInGenitals
08-02-2007 4:40 PM


Re: Time to spit or pass the cuspidor.
Or am I just too dense to know when my leg is being pulled?
No legs are being pulled. Maybe that's just spacial displacement you are feeling.

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Replies to this message:
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mpc755
Member (Idle past 6101 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 07-29-2007


Message 76 of 119 (414161)
08-03-2007 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Taz
08-02-2007 5:55 PM


Re: Time to spit or pass the cuspidor.
Last example: the way light is bent around the sun is explained by Einstein as due to the Sun's mass causing the warping of space time.
Isn't it a simpler explanation to describe the bending of light around the Sun as being due to the space that has been displaced by the Sun?
You're right, until I can prove something, the theory will remain in the crack-pot realm.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Chiroptera, posted 08-03-2007 12:00 PM mpc755 has replied

  
mpc755
Member (Idle past 6101 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 07-29-2007


Message 78 of 119 (414387)
08-04-2007 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Chiroptera
08-03-2007 12:00 PM


Re: Time to spit or pass the cuspidor.
Since we're discussing words, let's take a look at Einstein's Train Thought Experiment, from which he derives much of his Special Theory of Relativity.
Let's change Einstein's Train Thought Experiment by adding another observer at midpoint M'. This observer knows he is on a train moving at velocity v. When the lightning strikes occur at A' and B', both observers measure the distances to the marks left by the lightning strikes.
The observer who doesn't know he is on a moving train concludes that the lightning strike at B' occurred prior to the lightning strike at A'. The observer who knows he is on a moving train, tells the other observer to look out the window and notice that they are on a train moving at velocity v. The observer who didn't know he was on a moving train now determines that both lightning strikes must have occurred simultaneously.
I think you are on shaky ground when you base much of a theory on a observer who isn't smart enough to look out a window and realize he is on a moving train.
Edited by mpc755, : Message clean-up. Better Example.
Edited by mpc755, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
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mpc755
Member (Idle past 6101 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 07-29-2007


Message 80 of 119 (414831)
08-06-2007 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Chiroptera
08-04-2007 11:57 AM


Re: Time to spit or pass the cuspidor.
...until one decides on a frame of reference...
So when the lightning strikes occurred depends on what an Observer thinks?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Chiroptera, posted 08-04-2007 11:57 AM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Chiroptera, posted 08-06-2007 3:35 PM mpc755 has replied

  
mpc755
Member (Idle past 6101 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 07-29-2007


Message 82 of 119 (414849)
08-06-2007 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Chiroptera
08-06-2007 3:35 PM


Re: Time to spit or pass the cuspidor.
It depends on the frame of reference one chooses
One Observer on the train says the ground is moving past the train, so the lightning strike at B' occurred before the lightning strike at A'.
A second Observer on the train says the train is moving at velocity v relative to the ground, so the lightning strikes occurred simultaneously.
A third Observer says the train is moving so fast towards B' and away from A', that the lightning strike at A' had to occur before the lightning strike at B'.
A fourth Observer says the train is moving toward A' and away from B', so the lightning strike at B' had to occur before the lightning strike at A' and had to occur earlier than to the lighting strike at A' relative to the other Observers.
They are all correct since they all take different frames of reference.
So there are an infinite number of different times that the lightning strikes occurred?
So an Observer who decides to take the "train is traveling at almost the speed of light toward B' reference-frame" could decide that the light from A' has taken billions and billions of years to reach him?
Einstein states, "unless we are told the reference-body to which the statement of time refers, there is no meaning in a statement of the time of an event." Who tells the Observer the reference-body to which the statement of time refers?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Chiroptera, posted 08-06-2007 3:35 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Chiroptera, posted 08-06-2007 4:46 PM mpc755 has replied

  
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