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Author Topic:   Sun-Earth-Moon Gravity
Taz
Member (Idle past 3321 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 56 of 119 (413409)
07-30-2007 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by mpc755
07-30-2007 10:53 AM


mpc755 writes:
Is there a contradiction with saying the Sun interacts with the Earth-Moon system as a single entity, but will still have an effect on the Earth's tides? If the sun can still impact the Earth's tides, then isn't it interacting with the Earth as a single entity?
And here you've stumbled into another very common misconception, even among science enthusiasts and many physics students.
First of all, it's our moon that causes earth's tides more than anything else. The misconception is that the moon's gravity itself somehow pulls on the water of the oceans and causing them to rise. Ask anyone here among the science enthusiasts and they will tell you the same thing. This is not entirely correct.
To fully understand why we have tides, you first need to have a little imagination to understand what I'm about to explain.
The earth's tides are not caused by the direct gravitational pull of the moon on earth's ocean waters. Think of it this way. You don't feel any lighter everytime the moon passes over your head, do you? The moon's gravity acts on earth more or less as a whole rather than the individual objects.
The true explanation for earth's tides is the following. Even though we tend to think of gravitational force acting on an object like earth more or less as a whole, we have to put into account the distance between one side of the earth to the moon and the other side of the earth to the moon. The fact is the side of the earth that is closer to the moon experiences a slightly greater pull from the moon than the other side. The effect of it is the earth's shape changes back and forth very slightly. The changes in shape are so minutely slight that you can't actually observe any difference here on earth. But this changes in shape actually cause the earth's oceans to appear to rise up and down.
Here is something you can do to help you better visualize this effect. Get a plastic container like a milk bottle or something. Pour water into it. Now, compress it and release it. Observe how the water wobbles back and forth.
This same effect is what is causing one of Jupiter's moons to have active volcanos. Jupiter's gravity is doing the same thing to its moon what earth's moon is doing to earth but at a much greater scale. The changes in the shape of jupiter's moon is causing a lot of friction within the moon which in turn is giving it a very active core.
Anyway, if my above explanation doesn't make any sense, I guess it's fine if you want to continue to believe that the moon is actually pulling onto the earth's ocean water and causing it to rise giving us tides.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by mpc755, posted 07-30-2007 10:53 AM mpc755 has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3321 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 57 of 119 (413410)
07-30-2007 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by mpc755
07-30-2007 12:07 PM


mpc755 writes:
Has anyone come up with a reason why gravity exists, or how it works?
Why does gravity exist? I don't know. But I doubt it would help us understand the universe any better if we answer because it is god's will. Catch my drift?

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by mpc755, posted 07-30-2007 12:07 PM mpc755 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by mpc755, posted 07-30-2007 10:16 PM Taz has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3321 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 59 of 119 (413443)
07-30-2007 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by mpc755
07-30-2007 9:48 PM


Just so you know, everytime you want to put forward an idea that is different than what the conventional science tells us, you have to answer at least the following: What's wrong with the conventional view? Why is your idea better than the conventional view? What predictive power does your "theory" have?

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by mpc755, posted 07-30-2007 9:48 PM mpc755 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by mpc755, posted 07-30-2007 10:21 PM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3321 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 67 of 119 (413548)
07-31-2007 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by mpc755
07-30-2007 10:21 PM


You forgot the other 2 criteria. By your standard, I could offer any crackpot idea about these things and be taken seriously.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by mpc755, posted 07-30-2007 10:21 PM mpc755 has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3321 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 75 of 119 (414097)
08-02-2007 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by mpc755
08-02-2007 4:47 PM


Re: Time to spit or pass the cuspidor.
Mpc, please don't take this the wrong way. The reason many of us are questioning you is because we've encountered too many crackpot theories before. The biggest misconception among student age groups about science is that any idea that even remotely make sense to an individual's common sense can be called "scientific". It's not that we don't appreciate your effort in trying to understand reality and science. It's that to be taken seriously in the serious world of science, you need much more than a simple common sense based "theory" to explain natural phenomena. You need at least some supporting data for your "theory", a detailed report on experimentations you've performed so that others can repeat them, and repeatability of your predictions. So far, you've given us nothing but an idea (an interesting one at that, but just an idea nonetheless) with absolutely no supporting data or logic whatsoever.
This is one of the reasons why creationism is so attractive to the ignorant masses (pardon the term). All you need is read the first few pages of the bible and then you can proclaim yourself a "creation scientist". You've mentioned before that you are not religious. Well, I certainly hope that you don't follow the same path that creationists have taken.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by mpc755, posted 08-02-2007 4:47 PM mpc755 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by mpc755, posted 08-03-2007 12:56 AM Taz has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3321 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 117 of 119 (421326)
09-12-2007 3:20 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Calypso
09-12-2007 12:59 AM


Re: Earth sun moon gravitation
First of all, read my explanation on why the moon causes tides here.
The distance between earth and the sun is so much greater than the earth to the moon that the gravitational force between the earth and sun acting on the side of earth facing the sun is not that much different than the the force acting on the side facing away from the sun. The same thing cannot be said about the force between earth and moon. If you don't get it, I'm sure you'll get it eventually.
Hint: use your equation there and start plugging in some numbers to compare and contrast.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Calypso, posted 09-12-2007 12:59 AM Calypso has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Calypso, posted 09-12-2007 8:47 PM Taz has not replied

  
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