Is biblegod pro life?

Then that's probably where we differ. I don't make a distinction between natural and imposed consequences. I haven't really seen a reason for making such a distinction. To me, a consequence, whether natural or imposed, is still a consequence. If you could make an argument for why I should make a distinction, I'd be willing to listen.But I'll be honest, I don't know if I'd actually consider making such a distinction myself. Still, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter.Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.

Ah, ok. I never considered it that way. My definition of pro-choice, intuitively because I never really thought it out, has always been to allow a person the freedom to choose disregarding the consequences and the nature of said consequences or the effect of the consequences on said choice.My usual example is a man holds a gun to a person's head and says do this or die. To most people there is no choice but to do as the gunman says, but to me there is a choice, although the alternative is highly undesirable. You can choose to die. (Of course there are other hidden choices too, but let's assume for this example that it is impossible to realize the other choices.)The gunman may have given a choice, but is probably expecting the person to do as he says. Thus the gunman is not really pro-choice.I think a quote from Futurama (Season 5, Episode 4) is appropriate here:

quote:

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I don't condone what Dr Zoidberg did but I'll fight tooth and nail for his freedom to do it.

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Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.

I won't yet agree that God isn't truly pro-choice. However, I will agree that I probably haven't provided a viable proof for it and I can agree, until I find otherwise, that Exodus 21:22 probably has little to do with the argument since there is no clear consensus on the translation and quite possibly deals with premature birth rather than miscarriage, so I'll drop the argument concerning Exodus 21:22.Sorry if my words seems unclear... I've been filling my head with a lot of science recently.Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.

Um... Yeah...Purpledawn and I went over all of this already. I've made a concession to his point, at least on the use Exodus 21:22. Read the other posts.He made an argument and showed evidence that supported his argument. I made my argument, but was willing to look at his evidence in an objective way. After considering the evidence objectively, I realized that my use of that particular passage from Scripture could not be used because of the variations of translations. I admitted my argument was flawed and that there was no need to debate that point anymore as the observed evidence clearly fit in with what he was saying despite what I may believe. Therefore, I discontinued my attempt to use that particular passage of Scripture to support my belief.And Perdition made a very persuasive argument for why my idea of what it is to be pro-choice is probably not the the best definition. I will certainly give his argument the consideration it deserves as it relates to my idea that God is pro-choice.Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.

I think the problem with this topic and your argument to try to convince me God is pro-life is that we don't really know what God will or will not approve of. It is clear from Scripture that God has condoned war, the killing of infants and woman, the conquering of land, etc if it is God's will. But what is God's will?I am reminded of the story of the farmer and the flood. One day as he was watching TV, he heard a news report that a flood was going to strike the town and the valley it was in, in short time. But he turned off the TV and said that God would save him. As the floodwaters came in and rose higher and higher, he went up to the second floor of his house and say a man in a boat. The man in the boat offered to carry the farmer, but the farmer politely refused saying that God would save him. The floodwaters kept getting higher and higher and finally the farmer was on the roof of his house. A helicopter flew overhead and a man in the helicopter dropped down a rope and told the farmer that they would carry him to safety. The farmer refused, secure in his faith that God would save him. The floodwaters eventually closed up around the farmer and the farmer died. When the man awoke, he was in Heaven and saw God. The farmer said to God, "I appreciate being here and all, but why didn't you save me?" God replied, "Didn't save you? I told you the flood was coming, sent you a boat, and a helicopter. What more did you want me to do?"This story is often used by Christians to show that we are unaware of God's will and seemingly non-miraculous happenings may be the answer to our prayers. It offers the lessons that God works in mysterious ways.So how do we know that God wouldn't use an abortion if it suited his will? How do we know that person who claimed God told him to kill isn't telling the truth? We don't know for certain.What we do know is what we know and believe about topics personally and the ways we justify what we believe. What my arguments with Perdition and Purpledawn should show is that a person can twist the evidence to fit their beliefs when an objective look at the evidence would never support such beliefs. I had the mistaken notion that God was pro-choice, but Purpledawn showed me that my choice of passage could not support my argument and Perdition showed me that if God applies punishment to abortion, then God is not pro-choice even is God allows such a choice to be made. In the end, I realized that I was using God to try and justify my belief in the face of the evidence that my justifications was wrong.Is God pro-life?I could never prove it to you so I am not going to argue this point anymore. You could argue Scripture, but I don't believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible. I know I could try to use Scripture to justify what I believe, but that would be disingenuous because I don't believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible and I couldn't tell you what really is God's will. What I can tell you is what I believe and why I believe it.Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.

I am pro-choice, although I think late-term abortions should not be used except in situations where the life of the mother is in danger. Otherwise I personally wouldn't want an abortion to occur, although ultimately it wouldn't be my choice (seeing as I can't get pregnant.) I believe in personal responsibility and if two people can't use the multitude of birth control options out on the market, then those people need to be responsible for their actions.But I am a pro-choice simply because I believe people have the right to choose. In the USA, the right to choose is inherent in many of the rights expressed in the Bill of Rights. Of course, that doesn't mean it is a blank check to do as a one pleases, but that does mean that people need to be able to use their own judgments to make a decision for themselves. That's why I agree with the current way abortions are handled in the US, that is, the doctor will find out why a woman wants the abortion, discuss risks and alternatives, and have the woman wait 24 hours before making a decision. It informs the woman's choice and gives them time to reconsider.I also agree that human life does not begin at conception simply because it is not viable. But once a fetus becomes viable, then even more careful considerations must be made as the fetus is now able to develop outside the mother's womb.For me, the argument using God was a way to counter fundamentalists who use religion to justify anything they want. It was a way to turn the argument around on them. To continue to use it would be wrong simply because I know that my argument is wrong in the face of evidence.I hope that you can learn from my error. Belief is a strange thing, at once a blessing and a curse. It can release us free from doubt and fear, but lock us in ignorance and irrationality. Belief should only inform us about how we should live our personal lives, not how we can force others to live the lives we want them to live. Whether or not God is pro-life or pro-choice shouldn't matter. That's our personal reason for our personal choice. What we shouldn't do is let fanaticism in our beliefs blind us to the truth of our reality, to the evidence laid out before us. To me, that goes against the spirit of Christianity.I think I have strayed a bit from the topic with this post, so any further discussion about my views should be discussed in a new topic to which I would gladly participate.Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.