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Author | Topic: Is biblegod pro life? | |||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Izanaqi writes: In that particular passage, we can see that is not the case. We know the taking of the woman's life is punishable by death but causing a woman to miscarry is subject only to a fine. This leads to one of two conclusions:1) The fetus is not considered a life. Life does not begin at conception. B) If the fetus is considered life, then the life of the fetus is less than the life of the woman. I dont believe that verse is only speaking about the woman. This problem is one of translation and not of the law in question. The literal interlinear reading shows that the Hebrew does not limit the application of injury (fatal accident) to just the mother. You have to read this right to left, but if you take special notice of the first and final bolded line, it shows that it is speaking about injury to the baby... 'and goes forth her child' is speaking about the baby being bornn without injury, then the man was to be fined anyway...however the final line says 'and if injury is' then the man was to pay with his life.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Izanaqi writes: You're joking right? The grammar is so horrific, I can't make heads or tails out of it. It's like Yoda-speak, but worse. Show me the site that actually has it written like this or prove to me that you know how to read Hebrew. Otherwise, I can't even begin to consider your point if all you did was rearrange words around to fit your point. Even I can do that, but I don't because that would be dishonest and I like to have honest debates. that is the hebrew 'literal' rendering from an interlinear i cant give you a link because it didnt come from the interweb I did say that you need to read it from RIGHT TO LEFT as this is how Hebrew is written.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
lets get over the semantics and look at the original reading
the hebrew verese does not imply that it is speaking only of damage to the woman for the reason that the penalty was not to be applied until after the birth of the child only this way would they know for sure if any damage had been done to the baby If it was only damage to the woman, why wait until the birth of the child before the penalty is applied?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Izanaqi writes: Where in those two versions does it state to wait to see what damage was done to the fetus. I challenge you to find in Exodus 21:22 the exact sequence of words that states to wait until birth to see what damage is done to the fetus and then to apply the fine. im not interested in those two versions. they are translations from the original... the translators could have it wrong. The original does not mention miscarriage it mentions the birth of the child 'and goes forth her child and is not injury' I look at this verse and can see that the hebrew writer was focused on the baby and whether it was injured or not. The only way to know is to wait until the child 'goes forth' and then to determine if any injury had resulted.
Izaniqi writes: They were only concerned if the man caused the woman to miscarry or if the woman received physical damage. If the woman miscarried but was otherwise unhurt, then the penalty would be a fine. no for the reason stated above. the original writing is speaking about injury to the child, not the woman. Under the mosaic law if the woman died, the one who struck her would have to pay the penalty of the law. In this case it is clear that the 'injury' being spoken of is to the unborn child, not the woman.
Izanaqi writes: I challenge you to show me how you could interpret that passage in any other way. by going to the original language you can see. here is another translation which shows more correctly the Hebrew meaning:
quote: again, here is the original hebrew word for word (this time i've rearranged it left to right for you)
quote: If you look carefully you'll see that if the CHILD GOES FORTH injured or not, the striker was still to be fined and go before the juges if it turned out that the CHILD GOES FORTH injured, then soul for soul was the punishment. Either way you look at it, the child is what the original writer had in mind, not the mother. Perhaps the later translators did not know ancient hebrew as well as we do today.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
im sorry, i picked up where i left
Just on the pro-choice issue...God has laws that he does not want us to overstep. One of those laws is about taking the life of another... would you agree that murder is the willfull taking of a life? If you do, then surely you have to agree that abortion is the willfull taking of life. just to show that even the unborn are considered special to God the Psalmist David wrote this under inspiration:
quote: I also like these inspired words from Ecclesiaties 11:5"Just as you are not aware of what is the way of the spirit in the bones in the belly of her that is pregnant, in like manner you do not know the work of the [true] God, who does all things" God wants us to respect life because he is the maker of all living things. Life belongs to him, it doesnt belong to us to take and do what we want with.The unborn are living beings, why should it be our decision if they live or die? Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Izanaqi writes: You could argue Scripture, but I don't believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible. I know I could try to use Scripture to justify what I believe, but that would be disingenuous because I don't believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible and I couldn't tell you what really is God's will. What I can tell you is what I believe and why I believe it. so what do you believe with regard to abortion and why?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Izanaqi writes: For me, the argument using God was a way to counter fundamentalists who use religion to justify anything they want. It was a way to turn the argument around on them. To continue to use it would be wrong simply because I know that my argument is wrong in the face of evidence. i agree with you on this point...its not for fundamentalists to insist on how everyone else should act or behave. God does not force people to behave a certain way and he forbids his followers to try and do so. "Stop judging that you may not also be judged" is a warning to christians not to concern themselves with what other people do. He has not given them any authority to condemn anyone, that is for him alone to do. so you are quite right in that God allows everyone to choose, but as was mentioned by another poster, God will judge us for our decisions and at his appointed time he will deliver the appropriate pentalty to them. Its up to individuals to search out what Gods requirements are and then try to act in accord with them. this is why most christians would never choose to have an abortion because they view the life as something that belong to no one else but God....and in harmony with the laws against murder, they believe that it is against Gods law.
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