The End of Evolution By Means of Natural Selection

Contents of duplicate post removed.Edited by Admin, : Duplicate post.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I left out a couple details. I'm asking Faith to find a partner who shares her views, and she and that partner can only advocate positions they both share. In this way I hope to avoid the constant protests of "That's not what I said, you're all misunderstanding me," and also to avoid the advocacy of positions that make no sense to anyone, creationists included, because when Faith gets her dander up she won't back away from any position, no matter how ridiculous.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Faith's email is public. Anyone who would like to continue a dialog with Faith should send her an email to see if she's interested in an email discussion.Anyone who would like to post summaries should go ahead and do so, but I'm going to hold Faith's threads open for a while until I'm sure she's not going to return.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

People aren't misunderstanding Faith. What happens is that she says one thing, then when people point out the errors she first says how badly she's been misunderstood, often adding she feels people are doing it on purpose to make her look stupid. Then she explains what she really meant, which often bears no resemblance to what she first said, and usually makes equally little sense.She also often says she's been misunderstood, but then supplies no explanation of what she really meant. It is very common for people to be left not knowing what Faith is advocating, just that whatever it is, it isn't what they thought.I want Faith to partner with someone, and they can only advocate views they both agree with. They'll have to take disagreements between themselves offline. If Faith agreed to this then I'm sure she'd soon be excoriating her partner just as she does everyone else, but at least it will be private, thus removing all the nonsense and garbage from my board.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Hyroglyphx,I'm seeking a way by which Faith could continue participation here. Ignoring her flagrant Forum Guidelines violations is not one of the options being considered. When I suspended Faith she had already been in high dudgeon for at least a week, and constructive discussion had already ceased. Everyone else is already convinced that Faith's problems are all of her own making, but persuading Faith of this seems unlikely, and it's not the topic of discussion anyway.I'm open to ideas, people can send me PM's.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I haven't received any suggestions I felt were workable, and Faith doesn't think she can find anyone to partner with. Can you imagine if an evolutionist came here and posted a note saying, "I'm in a debate at another board and need another evolutionist to partner with me. The only requirements are that we follow their rules and that we both argue the same positions. We wouldn't be allowed to argue positions we only hold individually. They imposed that requirement because they think evolutionists are always changing their story and being inconsistent. Any volunteers?"But given that her level of irrationality surpasses that of most other creationists, I'm not surprised Faith didn't even try to find a partner, so I have another proposal. I don't think Faith would have broken down to the point of becoming unmanageable again if she had been able to carry on a one-on-one discussion over at the The Great Debate forum. I'd like a volunteer to take over discussion in the Reduction of Alleles by Natural Selection (Faith and ZenMonkey Only) thread, but I need a special someone who will be patient and constructive (which BlueJay and Zen Monkey were), and who will stick with it. Those of you who Faith has already nixed know who you are.Any volunteers?

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Faith has made it clear via PM that she will not return, so I'll leave this open a couple more days so people can post summations.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

EvC's latest run-in with Faith reminds me of the Chicago 7 trial. Most here are probably too young to remember this trial from the 1960's, and the details are unimportant anyway, but what is important is how a determined group were able to disrupt the American justice system and cast themselves as victims through images like this one of Bobby Seale at trial after he refused to stop interrupting proceedings with vocal and profane outbursts: Whether Seale and the Chicago 7 were innocent or guilty, whether their complaints about the legal process held any merit, everyone agrees that this was a low point for American justice. I believe the way courts handle problem defendants today is to remove them from the courtroom. In the 1960's Seale was kept in the courtroom because American justice requires that a defendant be able to face his accusers, but I think they've developed legal strategies that while still honoring this requirement are able to keep court proceedings from being disrupted.I recognize it's melodramatic to compare what just took place here with the Chicago 7 and Bobby Seale trials, but what is apt in the comparison is how effective complete non-cooperation with a process can be. EvC Forum's claims to fair and open discussion of the claims of creationism have taken quite a blow. Unable to muster any effective arguments or evidence for her point of view Faith fell back on a "site nullification" approach by questioning our fairness and impartiality. Sure she broke every forum guideline within her reach, but what stands out most visibly in Faith's threads are her constant complaints about this site. You have to read for at least several minutes to begin seeing how what Faith is saying is nonsense, but you can read and understand phrases like these instantly (these are, of course, pulled out of context, see Message 698 for the full context): We never delete posts at EvC Forum and so they will stand as long as this site does, and this makes me very sad.Edited by Admin, : Typo.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director