Summations Only

I don't know why ICANT can't comprehend a closed system with the energy source of the system within the system. This would needs be the case with any closed system. No?I've cited over and over to ICANT Biblical confirmation that God's abode is in the system over the years, sometimes chapter and verse. I guess he thinks Jesus who sits on God's right hand, the four living creatures and 24 elders around the throne, the seraphims and cherubims around Jehovah the emerald throne and all else are all out in some undefinable ether beyond the cosmos of our universe.I guess he thinks Jesus is coming back into the universe from that mysterious ether allegedly outside the universe in order to return for his messianic kingdom on earth withing the system, as prophesied.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Friend Straggler, I've never claimed that Jehovah has destroyed even one iota of energy in the Universe. You're misconstruing my terminology. When a builder/designer destroys one building and rebuilds it, sometimes using some of the same materials on the new, , sometimes using all new materials, no energy has been obliterated from existence. Nothing has been obliterated from existence. All material and energy has just changed forms by work of the designer, and perhaps an increase in entropy, due to the deterioration of the old buildings by weather, erosion, neglect, etc. . :
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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

The apostle Paul's reference to the third heaven in no way depicts an out of the universe area of the cosmos. It simply distinguishes between the earth's atmosphere, perhaps the region of our Solar System or our Galaxy and the region in which God's abode exists.All related to Jehovah is active within the Universe. Jesus, the man/messiah who sits in Jehovah's abode with Jehovah, the father was born a man on earth, goes to Heaven and will return to earth. Jehovah's Holy Spirit moves on the waters etc doing the work of creation. This multi-present spirit of Jehovah creates things as per Psalms 104:30. All of the creatures of Jehovah, of a higher intelligence than that experienced on earth live in the Universe, many in his abode. Michael and Gabriel, archangels war with evil angels who appear to be entities having power over nations like Greece and Persia as per the prophet Daniel in the latter chapters of his book.This all depicts Jehovah as being in the Universe.As for the illogical notion of more than one uni-verse, that runs contrary to the definition of universe. What you're implying leaves no place for a uni-verse. You;re illogical notion implicates a multi-verse/multi-verse, our realm being one realm of the multi-verse. Uni=one. multi=more than one, i.e. everything existing in one as opposed to everything existing comprising more than one.There is no evidence for more than a uni/one-verse.Relative to topic, the notion of multi-verses would run contrary to much of Cavediver's conventional science paradigm which implies no outside of our Universe, Multiverses poses a problem as to what separates one of the segments of a multi-verse from the other, even if they are allegedly a pan-cake like stack, as I understand the concept to be.The multi-verse concept definitely runs contrary to the Biblical record, as I have explained. There is no Biblical references to support it. Edited by Buzsaw, : Update message title

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Obviously you haven't paid much attention to my literal rendition of Genesis one over the years. It has always been an infinite Universe hypothesis. As I have stated on numerous occasions, including in this thread somewhere, the work pertaining to the heavens and earth in earth's realm of the Universe began after the opening prefacing statement of Genesis one.Genesis one does not say when the heavens (relating to earth) and earth, alluded to were created; just that when ever they were created, God did it. That opening statement is followed by the beginning of the work on planet earth etc.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

ICANT, after a good night's rest and your mind is refreshed, please go bock and think hard on what I said. I said Genesis one does not state when the heavens pertaining to planet earth were created.. That means they could have been created billions of years ago or perhaps a few millions, etc.I said that the opening statement of Genesis one was just that; and opening statement, not pertaining to the time that the actual work was begun by God's Holy Spirit.What that opener is saying is that when each thing in the our heavens was created God did it. Perhaps it pertains to the stars in our Galaxy or perhaps just our Solar System. The text does not explain. The work in Genesis one pertaining to our planet is mainly what the chapter is about.My position has also consistently been, over the years that literally speaking, since our sun, moon and stars pertaining to our region were not created until day four, the length of days prior to day five when these bodies were finished is unknown. They could have been a very long time, the 24 hour day not determined until the sun etc were created, one of the purposes of these days being to determine days, nights, seasons etc, In other threads I've gone into more detail about all of this.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

How so? If anything, it is more compatible with these laws than your singularity and BB theories, in that the energy of the Universe has remained quantitatively constant infinitely, being managed by the intelligent source of it. 2LoT allows for work which slows/regulates the rate of equilibrium. No?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

It means that there is an intelligent agent within the system capable of managing the energy within the system. We do not observe chaos and disorder emerging into order naturally. Order, life and complex systems observed within the Universe implicate an energetic intelligence within the system, capable of decreasing the entropy of the system via work. Intelligently managed energy within the system prevents a state of maximum entropy. This does not necessarily violated the 2nd Law. It is indicative of an intelligence within the system capable of managing the system's entropy.The alleged Singularity event, having no space in which to have existed, no time in which to have happened and no area for the ensuing BB to expand into, on the other hand, violates the 1st and 2nd laws, in that entropy decreases from zero heat/energy to an intensely hot submicroscopic speck, effecting the ensuing alleged BB expansion, allegedly emerging, over the ages, chaos and disorder into all of the order, life and complex systems observed today, defying all logic.Conclusion: Though both ideologies have debatable aspects pertaining to the LoTs, Cavediver's Temporary Non-ID Universe is less compatible to the LoTs than Buzsaw's Genesis Infinite ID Universe.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

What I propose is that all of the energy of the system relates to the system's intelligent manager of the energy. All energy has infinitely existed in conjunction with that entity. There is an ebb and flow of the energy from the entity, flowing from the entity by design and ebbing from the system to the entity by design. Thus the need for rest by the entity following creative work. Thus, the prediction of the consummation, by design of the present heavens, and the creation of new heavens and new earth as per Revelation 20 and other prophecies pertaining to the Biblical model.That prediction does not specify of a region of the universe applicable to the prediction; just that it pertains to some extent to our region of the cosmos.What is unknown by either camp is how big the universe is. The Buzsaw space hypothesis calls for unbounded space, the only property of space being area in which everything exists. Space/area existing within the Universe, of necessity, implicates an unbounded closed system Universe, the energy existing in the Universe remaining quantitatively constant infinitely. Whether the absolute zero event is referred to as a singularity or whatever, the current model of cosmology relative to thermodynamics is problematic regarding the origin of a temporal universe.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

The problem with your model is just that; that you think it requires no further researching of the evidence of such an entity existing, capable of effecting the reduction of entropy, managing the system. Conventional science has no interest in whether a metaphysical realm of existence exists in the Universe. It is a narrow minded approach to science as if the level of intelligence experienced on this itty bitty spot in the Universe called Planet Earth can be the only possible level of intelligence.There are plenty of ways in which science could study metaphysical data just related to the Biblical record itself, as to whether it has any credibility or not. At least Lennart Moller was objective in his science to determine that and report the evidence which he researched. If conventional science had an objective mindset, it would set out to falsify Moller's claims. They have a vested interest in remaining ignorant themselves and keeping mainstream academia ignorant regarding such evidence. Students could even do studies to determine whether evidence exists showing whether the prophecies of Biblical prophets reached the status of supporting the existence of metaphysical knowledge, i.e. falsifying the prophets. .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Of course there isn't by the standards of conventional science. I'm not talking about that. My hypothesis is not based on your theory.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

The same applies to both camps. The question remains, which is the most compatible..

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Both of our concepts involve reversible applicability; mine via the working metaphysical designer/manager of the system and yours applying the concept of a quantum Truth Observable zero orthogonal physical counterpart to logic, as I understand it.Neither would necessarily violate 2LoT though mine is at least is logical having the advantage of physical evidence of the existence of a working entity capable of work, effecting the reversibility.Conclusion: Mine be the most compatible to 2LoT. Edited by Buzsaw, : indicated by color

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Reversing the applicability of the 2nd law respective to entropy, in that the BBT:

Jehovah, the Biblical working metaphysical creator/designer/manager of the system capable of reversing the applicability of the 2nd law respective to entropy, albeit, without violating 2LoT which allows for the application of work which would effect some reversal of the positive entropy of the system. The BBT appears to be reversing the applicability of the 2nd law respective to entropy by definition of entropy as per the Online Free Dictionary, from which I received the three reversibles listed above.The disordered chaotic, zero mass, illogical alleged singularity, as some would describe it, allegedly prececessing the alleged BB, having no area in which it could have existed, no existing time in which it could have happened and no outside area for the BB to expand into, thus bass-akwardly and illogically effecting the reversal of the natural tendency towards positive entropy of a closed system.Online Free Dictionary definition: entropy:

quote:

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2. A measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system.
3. A measure of the loss of information in a transmitted message.
4. The tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

The basic training in our exclusively secularistic college level physics haven't forgotten. Their problem is what they have been deprived of in that training relative to the probability of an operative intelligent designer in the Universe which would best explain the reversal of some aspects of positive entropy prevalent to 2LoT via work of the designiner/manager of the Universe.The basics of physics taught the yute should be more wholistic so as to widen the scope of physicist research.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

They, by all means didn't want to be held accountable to a higher intelligence and power, subjecting themselves to the high principles that the creator held for them.So they concocted up a theory (I say theory) having no empirical model for and not physically visible. Allegedly, billions of years ago the entire Universe, including all of it's mass and energy was hotly compressed into a submicroscopic chaotic speck, having no space in which to exist, no outside of in which to expand, no before time in which to have happened, for no explicable reason, suddenly expanded and metamorphed, over some 13.5 or so billion years into all of the forces, order, complexity, intelligence, mass, and wonderment which we observe today. Model? What model even remotely depicts their Universe paradigm? Not at all, Rrhain. It has been completely ingrained into their young minds all of the way from pre-school through doctorate by their mentors. Witnessed? By whom? Certainly not Jehovah, the Biblical exclusive god having forever been the designer/manager of his infinite wonderful complex Universe, creating, destroying, recreating and managing things in it to please his purpose. Your message here, calling for whys and where-fors from me, has nothing in it to show a basis for their/your claims.