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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Occupy Wall Street

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Author Topic:   Occupy Wall Street
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 91 of 602 (636712)
10-10-2011 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Modulous
10-10-2011 8:30 AM


Mod writes:
From what I can tell the most optimistic protester is hoping for a socialist revolution.
What little I have seen of this on the news has been more along these lines than the more specific and realistic aims you mention.
Those sound similar to the sort of thing UK Uncut has campaigned for here in the UK.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Modulous, posted 10-10-2011 8:30 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 92 of 602 (636713)
10-10-2011 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by onifre
10-10-2011 8:14 AM


As Dronester so effectively points out, Obama loves those Wall Street peeps and it's safe to assume his administration will not support any legal actions toward them.
What about the legal actions he's already supported?
Or were you talking about criminal prosecutions? It turns out, in fact, that it's actually not against the law to destroy the American economy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by onifre, posted 10-10-2011 8:14 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by onifre, posted 10-10-2011 9:20 AM crashfrog has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2980 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 93 of 602 (636714)
10-10-2011 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Straggler
10-10-2011 8:19 AM


I am unclear as to exactly what change even the most optimistic Wall Street protestor is expecting?
My point was more about what youth ignited protest will acheive rather than about the specifics of the Wall Street protests themselves.
But from what I gathered out there, there is no collective agenda.
Is the aim to overthrow the capitalist system?
Yes, by tweeting how shitty capitalim is from their iPhone's and Androids, while blogging about it on their Macs and recording the protest from their Sony cameras to then upload on Youtube.
The aim isn't to overthrow capitalism, its to try and stop what lead to and the post affects of the bailout/banking mess. That's what I think it's about at least, if I was to try and come up with some kind of collective opinon.
Whilst weed and witty banners are always welcome even I (born optimist that I am) can't see that having the desired effect.
There was plenty of weed and whitty banners at Vietnam protests, and those had some rather good effects.
It's like this, baseball is a fun game and a great show of athletic ability in human beings that should be recognized and valued, but no ones sitting through nine innings of it without a beer.
You can't rally and protest against corrupt bankers without weed, no ones going to hang out with you in protest. Duh
- Oni

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onifre
Member (Idle past 2980 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 94 of 602 (636715)
10-10-2011 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by crashfrog
10-10-2011 9:13 AM


What about the legal actions he's already supported?
More Wall Street protesters have been arrested so far in Wall Street than anyone else! A few slaps on the wrist fail to convince me that any real action has been taken.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by crashfrog, posted 10-10-2011 9:13 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by crashfrog, posted 10-10-2011 9:46 AM onifre has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 95 of 602 (636716)
10-10-2011 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Straggler
10-10-2011 8:40 AM


What little I have seen of this on the news has been more along these lines than the more specific and realistic aims you mention.
The media coverage of it has been, as usual, sensationalised I think.
To be honest, most people I've seen interviewed have said 'I don't know, but something needs to change', a fair number mutter something about capital gains taxes and all of them seem generally unhappy about the unregulated gambling with pension funds that has occurred.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Straggler, posted 10-10-2011 8:40 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Straggler, posted 10-10-2011 11:39 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 96 of 602 (636718)
10-10-2011 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by onifre
10-10-2011 9:20 AM


More Wall Street protesters have been arrested so far in Wall Street than anyone else!
By Obama?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by onifre, posted 10-10-2011 9:20 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by onifre, posted 10-10-2011 9:59 AM crashfrog has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2980 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 97 of 602 (636720)
10-10-2011 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by crashfrog
10-10-2011 9:46 AM


By Obama?
By Yo-Mama
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by crashfrog, posted 10-10-2011 9:46 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 98 of 602 (636721)
10-10-2011 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by onifre
10-10-2011 9:59 AM


Touche!

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Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 99 of 602 (636734)
10-10-2011 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Modulous
10-10-2011 9:30 AM


Well that seems fair enough. I guess the chant:
WHAT DO WE WANT - Better regulated pension funds and more fiscal responsibility shown by bankers.
WHEN DO WE WANT IT - NOW!!!!
Just isn't snappy enough to get that point across in the average news bulletin.

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 100 of 602 (636754)
10-10-2011 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by crashfrog
10-03-2011 7:10 PM


Demand What Of Their Congressman?
crashfrog writes:
That mass protests have little to no effect, but mass communication with your congressman has been proven to have an effect. When a congressman's office gets deluged in letters expressing a viewpoint, it moves the needle. Just ask anybody who's interned for a congressperson. What doesn't move the needle is "raising awareness" or "freedom marching" or any of that stuff.
What are they going to demand of their congressman, being most of them have no idea what they are protesting about, relative to Wall Street?
Wall street is where millions of stock holding Americans who's stock dividends and earned income pays for the I-pads, the cell phones, the cigarettes, the beer, the bread, the pizza, etc that these non working sheeple buy with the tax money levied on the rich, the entrepreneurs, the corporate employees, etc.
While these non-tax paying idle (many of whom are rag tag) routy mobs are on the streets, (abe: biting) the hands that feed them, the one's feeding them are working ever harder to pay the increased taxes levied on them to pay for the 2 years unemployment, etc. The idle loud mouthed mobs are demanding the blessings of America without assuming the responsibilities.
If they contact their congressman, they should advise him/her that they are willing to give up their techy stuff, food, trucking companies that truck the stuff, motorcycles, autos and all else that Wallstreet affords them.
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by crashfrog, posted 10-03-2011 7:10 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by jar, posted 10-10-2011 4:36 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 102 by GDR, posted 10-10-2011 4:51 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 103 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-10-2011 5:00 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 105 by hooah212002, posted 10-10-2011 5:59 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 108 by crashfrog, posted 10-10-2011 6:58 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(6)
Message 101 of 602 (636757)
10-10-2011 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Buzsaw
10-10-2011 4:30 PM


Re: Demand What Of Their Congressman?
Wall Street "affords" no one but the people that are actually working on Wall Street.
It's time to return to a Progressive tax structure and a Progressive Inheritance Tax.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Buzsaw, posted 10-10-2011 4:30 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Buzsaw, posted 10-11-2011 11:09 AM jar has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 102 of 602 (636759)
10-10-2011 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Buzsaw
10-10-2011 4:30 PM


Re: Demand What Of Their Congressman?
This whole discussion is ideologically driven. I think it is good to stand back and look at some simple truths. Frankly I believe in capitalism but capitalism like any other system requires integrity. The banks, particularly in the US, have acted not only without integrity but fraudulently.
They loaned money out to hapless citizens, (in many cases knowing that when the sub-prime mortgage expired they would be unable to pay it back), then packaged up these loans and sold them to other financial institutions as blue chip loans.
When everything blew up in their faces they then went cap in hand to the same citizens they had mistreated to bail them out of their financial difficulties. The government representing these people had no real choice but to pony up in response to this blackmail as the economic downside was intolerable. While all this is going on, those financiers that were responsible for these reprehensible policies kept raking in salaries and bonuses that are beyond what 99.9% of us can imagine.
I think what the people in the street are asking for is that their government do something or anything that brings integrity and justice to financial institutions.
What else can people do to draw attention to the situation? At least in Canada we had some regulation when it came to our banks and as a result we have what has been noted as the strongest banking system in the world. We did not even come close to having one of our banks fail.
As I said it all comes down to integrity and it seems to be in short supply.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Buzsaw, posted 10-10-2011 4:30 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2011 6:04 PM GDR has replied
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 103 of 602 (636760)
10-10-2011 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Buzsaw
10-10-2011 4:30 PM


Re: Demand What Of Their Congressman?
What are they going to demand of their congressman, being most of them have no idea what they are protesting about, relative to Wall Street?
For starters, that Wall Street shouldn't get a second chance at destroying capitalism.
While these non-tax paying idle (many of whom are rag tag) routy mobs are on the streets, (abe: biting) the hands that feed them, the one's feeding them are working ever harder to pay the increased taxes levied on them to pay for the 2 years unemployment, etc.
Taxes have been cut, Buz. They are lower.
If they contact their congressman, they should advise him/her that they are willing to give up their techy stuff, food, trucking companies that truck the stuff, motorcycles, autos and all else that Wallstreet affords them.
Wall Street doesn't make any of those things. What they made was economic chaos. What they made was unemployment for the people whom you despise for being unemployed. If you hate the poor so much, couldn't you spare a little of that hatred for the people who made them poor?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Buzsaw, posted 10-10-2011 4:30 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2980 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 104 of 602 (636763)
10-10-2011 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Dr Adequate
10-10-2011 5:00 PM


Re: Demand What Of Their Congressman?
What they made was unemployment for the people whom you despise for being unemployed. If you hate the poor so much, couldn't you spare a little of that hatred for the people who made them poor?
Actually, they made the people who had fucking jobs unemployed. Those aren't the one's Buz hates. Buz hates the one's that were always unemployed. Mainly minorities.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-10-2011 5:00 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 105 of 602 (636767)
10-10-2011 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Buzsaw
10-10-2011 4:30 PM


Re: Demand What Of Their Congressman?
While these non-tax paying idle (many of whom are rag tag) routy mobs are on the streets, (abe: biting) the hands that feed them
Explain the effective difference between the OWS protests and the initial TP protests, other than one has been labeled conservative/republican (and worn that label like a shining star) and the other labeled (by people like you) as liberal/democrat (and has actually spoken for the 99%).

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Buzsaw, posted 10-10-2011 4:30 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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