Summations Only

Hi jar, But fountains of the deep exist today. Some on land and many many more under water.The water does rise 55 feet in six hours at the Bay of Fundy.Can you show me any text that states the rate of rain fall during the 40 days of rain? Since you can't refute that water came from the fountains of the deep you just deem it as plain silly. A single flat piece of dry land. There is a lot more land mass under water and the water does not flow downhill. It flows around, up and over the mountains.God Bless,

Hi Percy, We do tend to do a lot of thinking and then conclude our thinking right.But the only text we have that tells us anything about the flood of Noah says it rained for 40 days and 40 nights and the rain was stopped as was the fountains of the deep.After 150 days the water was abated and the ark rested in the area where the mountains of Ararat existed at the time of the writing of the text, that tells us of the flood of Noah. Yes that is very possible.But the story tells us the ark rested in the region where we find the mountains of Ararat today. Yes, but I don't believe it ended up on Mount Ararat as that is not what the story says. There is no such evidence available.There is none to be expected as the land mass was divided after the flood of Noah took place according to the text that tells of the story of the flood of Noah.There is evidence all over the world of the land mass being flooded and is what would be expected providing the flood of Noah took place prior to the division of the land mass to it's present configuration.God Bless,

Hi jar, But they still exist today all over the world.My favorite is the one off the coast of Florida at Jacksonville. It has been know to exist for quite some time now. Here is an article from the New York Times.

quote:

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FRESH-WATER SPRING IN THE OCEAN.
From the Jacksonville (Fla.) Times-Union.
How many people coming to Florida know
Anythin about the great fresh=water spring in
The Atlantic Ocean? People run all about the
State in search of something new and pass by
Things as old as the sun and yet as new to the
Hundreds of thousands of visitors to Florida as
Was "darkest Africa" to Stanley three years ago.
This great natural wonder covers an area of about
Two acres. Is in the Atlantic Ocean about two
Miles (east) from the shore and about ten miles
From St. Augustine, (south) The spring is defined
By the silver-gleaming white caps trying to force
Themselves over the powerful boiling spring.

​

The New York Times
Published: February 21, 1892
Copyright The New York Times

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There are ocean springs in the Hawaii Islands that produced drinking water for the natives many years ago.There is a huge body of water under Asia Source
SourceDepending on who you read behind there is enough water in the ocean floor and mantel to fill the oceans 5 to 10 times.Usually the statement is that you can't get that water out of the mantel to flood the Earth.Who says the water was in the mantel before the flood?In what I read the water gets in the mantel by subduction. That being the case it would have gotten there when the Earth was divided after the flood. Yes, rain water that falls on hills runs down hill.What was the rate of rain fall during the 40 days of flooding?There can only be x amount of water in the atmosphere and if the earth was covered with cloud cover for 40 days there would not be much evaporation to replace the moisture that fell to Earth. So there would be a big problem with the rain water doing much damage running down hill. You have to take into consideration at least 70% of the rain would fall in the water.The water rising from the fountains of the deep would rise like the water at the Bay of Fundy rises 55 feet in 6 hours.That water goes uphill not downhill. What do you base that assertion on? I think I have said there would be no evience of a global flood as the Earth was divided after the flood.As far as a local flood there are all kinds of fossils that are in and on mountains which means that land mass was under water at one time.God Bless,

Hi edge, Where did you get such a stupid idea from? I missed it too. It doesn't happen unless the water is heated, so no it does not spout into the air it runs off as a river and flows into Lake Okeechobee, then through dug canals to Miami to supply drinking water.Now Old Faithful in Wyoming is a different story. The water that comes out of it comes from around 14,000 feet deep as it passes over magna and is heated and goes up to 180 feet in the air.Hydrothermal vents are found at 7,000 feet below sea level in the ocean, and old faithful in Wyoming is over 7,000 feet above sea level. The Floridan aquifer. Nope.

quote:

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Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

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The fountain's of the deep would have been under the deep that is spoken of in Genesis 1:2. That would have been somewhere under the water.There are a lot of vents, which a freshwater spring is, under the water around the world. They are flowing a small stream today but if they were opened up, how much water could they release into the ocean?Remember the text says the fountain's of the deep were opened up.But you need to forget what YEC"S have said when you are talking to me. I ain't one. I don't believe all the layers of strata were laid down in the flood. So I don't believe in a catastrophe event taking place during the flood.That is the reason I continually ask the question, what would you expect to find if the flood of Noah actually took place?Especially since the Earth was divided after the flood of Noah.God Bless,

Hi jar, I guess you are going to tell me that the water that flows out of Old Faithful in Yellowstone Park which is over 7,000 feet above sea level and is heated by the magna is flowing downhill.I guess you would also tell me that all the water being released from the hydrothermal vents around the world is flowing downhill also.God Bless,

Hi Percy, Can I start a thread asking for the evidence to be presented of how the universe began to exist?If no one is allowed to participate in such a thread without presenting evidence there would be two posts. Mine presenting the problem and yours promoting the thread. There is no evidence.So when we are talking about how a flood such as the one in the Bible story of the flood of Noah there would be very little evidence.The Bible text says the dry land was covered with water. Genesis 7:19The Bible says the people were scattered over the face of the dry land. Genesis 11:8The Bible says the Earth was divided after the flood. Genesis 10:25That is the evidence of what was said about the flood of Noah. You can accept it or reject it that is your choice.Now I believe the flood was in recent times but I am not locked into such a belief.I do believe that it happened or it would not be recorded in the Bible from the writings of Moses. What evidence would you expect to find?I have given the example of the Bay of Fundy and how it rises 55 feet in 6 hours.If the fountains of the deep opened up and released enough water to raise the water at such a rate what would you expect to see left behind when it receeded?The waters began to rise in the 600th year, 2nd month and 17th day of Noah's life.It rained for 40 days as well as the water came forth from the fountains of the deep. Twelve months and 10 days after the rain began Noah and the passengers exited the ark.So it rained for 40 days and then had around 330 days to receed before Noah exited the ark. So the water did not rush back to where it came from but slowly receeded.If the waters from the fountains of the deep caused the ocean to rise as does the tide at the Bay of Fundy, in the fourty days the water would rise 8,800 feet. Then if all the water that can be held in the atmosphere also came down that would have added 1 inch more of water.The water rising the 55 feet at the Bay of Fundy in 6 hours and then receeding in 6 hours does not change the landscape as everyone here declares that the flood would have done.So could you explain to me what evidence there would be left by a flood that the water rose for 40 days and then receeded for 330 days on all the existing dry land on the Earth?Then add in the Earth was divided after the flood took place.The only evidence you would find is that there was local floods in a lot of places around the world. But then there have been many floods in local areas all over the world since the time of the flood of Noah.I can see no possibility of any evidence being left by a global flood as the Earth was divided after the flood.Now if you guys want to really continue to discuss the flood of Noah you need to discuss it in the light of the evedence that is found in the Bible as that is the only place the account of the flood of Noah is recorded.God Bless,

Hi jar, There is enough water beneath the crust of the Earth to fill our oceans from 5 to 10 times depending on who you are reading beind.Are you telling me all that water rained down out of the atmosphere and ran downhill to get to where it is at?The most water that can be in our atmosphere would only put 1 inch of water on planet Earth if it all came down at once.That water that is in the atmosphere has to go uphill from the surface of the water on planet Earth to get in the atmosphere. So water has to go uphill before it can go downhill. There is evidence that all the land mass has been covered with water.Fossils declare that all the land mass has been covered with water in the past. The land masses of the Earth are moving and if you trace it back you will find that there was one body of water and one land mass in the past.The Bible agrees and said all the water was gathered to one place leaving dry land.Since the idea that all the land mass was in one place has only been around for 96 or so years the author of Genesis was a pretty smart guy, don't you think?He said Pangea existed some 3500 years ago. There are fountains of the deep today and I think it is safe to assume they have always existed because of the way they exist today. The Bible does not say. I have an opinion but so does everyone else but none of our opinions is evidence. Fossils of sea creatures such as whales that were the size of busses in the Atacama Desert the driest place on the planet. You could try Chili for the whales in the desert or visit any mountain and you can find sea creature fossils.Now as far as finding the evidence of the flood of Noah I have no idea where you will find that evidence as the Earth was divided after the flood.God Bless,

Hi Coragyps, cavediver and Son Guku have said "We do not Know". That tells me there is no evidence. That is not to say that there are not opinions and even hypothesis's.The same goes for what I have been discussing here.God Bless,

Hi Percy, Who said it did?We agree that it is there, so how and when did it get there?An omniscient God would have provided the water for the fountains of the deep as He knew in advance that He would cause a flood to destroy all life forms that breathed the breath of life.The water would have been available to flood the Earth.Where did our water come from?That is a mystery, but it is thought to have come to Earth from outer space by way of objects crashing into Earth shortly after its formation.Thus the question how did it get into the mantle?As jar has repeated so many times water runs downhill, and I add unless it is going uphill as from springs, artisian wells, or the fountains of the deep.The water that was delivered to the Earth by whatever means had to migrate into the mantle. From what I understand that happens by subduction, when one plate dives beneath another plate.Since there is enough water in the mantle to cover the Earth many times where was it before it entered the mantle?But I have a problem with water migrating to the mantel.As I read about oil production in the Gulf of Mexico from 30,000 feet down when the drill breaks through to where the oil is the oil will come to the top of the pipe at the drilling rig due to the pressure the oil is under.Now if there was pools of water in the same area as the oil is in and that pool of water was released it would find the surface pretty quick.
But the main thing is there is at least 30,000 feet of materal that water can be stored in without being in the mantle. If all the Earth's water came from outer space as put forth it had to get into the mantle at some point in Earth's history as it is there today. Are you saying the water in the mantle plays a key role in plate movement?I was under the impression there was e lithosphere which is the outer solid part of the earth, with the asthenosphere that lubricates plate motions underneath it, then the upper mantle and lower mantle. You are refering to the plume theory which cannot account for all occurrences of the type of volcanism it was devised to explain.But I didn't know that the water in the mantle had anything to do with the plume as hypothetically it starts in the outer core, and extends upwards under the mantle raising the mantle and sometimes exiting accounting for volcanic regions separate from those of plate tectonics. Why would you see a reduction in the plume's trying to get out of the outer core?I raised one point about the water getting into the mantel and how it got there. I have a suggestion. It got there when the Earth was divided because it took a lot of water to cool the plates and especially the asthenosphere. Just a thought.

Hi Percy, So by saying there is enough water beneath the crust of the Earth to fill our oceans 5 to 10 times you assume I am saying that water came to the surface and flooded the world in the flood of Noah and then went back into the mantle.That is jumping to conclusion and putting words in my mouth.I made a statement of fact according to what I read scientist have said.I am saying the water is there now.The question is how did that water get there?The water that is in the mantle would be under great presure which would exceed the gravatational pull on the water, as evidenced when a drill hits a pocket of oil in the litosphere under the waters of the ocean.My question to you was how did that water get there?There are only so many plates that exist and one has to dive under another to cause subduction so there is only about 6 places that the water could get into the mantle but it is throughout the mantle.The lithosphere is from 6 miles to 50 miles thick and sets on top of the asthenosphere which is up to 150 miles thick.The asthenosphere has a lot of liquid in it.The lithosphere has a lot of liquid in it, including trillions of barrels of oil.I live in Florida and Google earth says my back yard is 49 feet above sea level. I can take a backhoe and dig a hole 30 foot deep in my back yard today and by tomorrow morning it will have 10 feet of water in it.If Florida was still covered with water as it was in the past would that water that is in the lithosphere in my back yard disappear?I think not.That leads me to believe that the litosphere that is under water has water in it also. This is the water that would have came to the surface when the fountains of the deep were opened up. Whether it would be saline water or fresh water would be irrelavant. I can drill a hole in my back yard to around 300 feet and get saline water.There is water in the asthenosphere as this is what is supposed to cool the plates providing lubrication to allow movement for the continents to move.You seem to be arguing that there is no water that is available in the lithosphere that is covered by water, is that your argument? Are you including the lithosphere and the asthenosphere which is at least 6 to 100 miles thick in the crust?They do exist before you get to the mantle.Are you saying there is no water in the lithosphere and the asthenosphere under the sea?All of our groundwater is in the lithosphere according to what I can find. None of the charts list the amount of water in the asthenospher under our dry land. That is amazing because it has to have water in it if the mantle under it has water in it.God Bless,