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Author | Topic: Top Ten Signs You're a Foolish Atheist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22506 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Phat writes: My question is...what does a "typical" atheist believe in? (as far as where everything came from) This makes me wonder what Chuck's list would look like were its inaccuracies and errors corrected or removed. Here's my attempt:
--Percy Edited by Percy, : Typo.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Incidentally, since you you didn't actually write this, I have to wonder how much of it you think you understand? The inane babblings about thermodynamics and "cause and effect", for example --- do they even mean anything to you? Or are you just reciting this nonsense as yet another meaningless religious ritual?
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 832 days) Posts: 3193 Joined:
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My question is...what does a "typical" atheist believe in? (as far as where everything came from) There is no such thing as a "typical" atheist. The only quality necessary to be considered an atheist is a "no" to the question: "do you believe in a god/s?". Sure, there are things a lot of atheists agree on, but since there is no central dogma to atheism, none of that matters as far as atheism is concerned.
The bottom line is, there is no better theory of how the universe came to be that has any bearing in reality than a Creator. Could you rephrase this? It sounds as though you are saying a creator is the only logical "theory" for the beginning of this universe. Is this what you are saying?Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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Hooah writes: I'm not saying that it is the only logical theory, but, rather, that it is no more illogical than any other theory.
It sounds as though you are saying a creator is the only logical "theory" for the beginning of this universe. Is this what you are saying?
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 832 days) Posts: 3193 Joined:
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that it is no more illogical than any other theory. Contrary to theist belief, logic is not in the eye of the beholder. You see, we have data on our side, whereas those who think a creator dun it have....belief? Faith? Occams Razor dictates yours to be rather illogical regardless if science says "we don't yet know". "I don't know" is a far shot more logical than positing a sky fairy did it, what with there not being a single spot of evidence for this "creator". Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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It all depends what one considers evidence to be.
quote: As you can see, outward signs of emotion, based on real or imagined experience, constitute evidence...of something. Granted, we have nary a spot of evidence as to what that something is or was. Of the oral statements and "testimonies" of other humans, we individually and collectively decide which to accept and which to reject. Given that there are theists as well as atheists, as well as a myriad of other beliefs, the strict definition of evidence is far from conclusive either way concerning God, gods, and other ideas. My point, I suppose, is that theism is a satisfactory alternative belief over observable reality. Myth has its place, and we cannot rule out some truth being found amongst myths.
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 832 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
As you can see, outward signs of emotion, based on real or imagined experience, constitute evidence...of something. Yes, evidence that you have a functioning brain. While such things may be satisfactory evidence for yourself, they fail to be satisfactory evidence for anyone else that doesn't quite think as you do. This, I think, is a good qualification for evidence: does it stand up to scrutiny outside of your own imagination? So, the evidence you provide is a fair shade different from what I, and would dare say the scientific community, would consider evidence. For example: I was watching some forensic show last night with my fiance. There was a woman who was raped and they had found the "perp". She swore up and down he was the guy AND he fit the description. When they ran the DNA test, he was not a match. When she found this out, she STILL believed him to be guilty. So much so, that she admitted to purchasing a gun and waiting outside his house with intent to kill (why she didn't get jail time or something is beyond me). 10 years goes by and they found a guy who committed another, similar, crime. He was a DNA match for the first crime. What does this tell us about personal belief and testimony compared to scientific data? Personal testimony and belief is fucking worthless for anyone but the individual with said testimony and belief.Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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When they ran the DNA test, he was not a match. In your example, you have evidence against the suspect. In the case of a Creator, (or if you prefer, suspect) we basically have no evidence for or against. Unless I'm missing something......
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 832 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
we basically have no evidence for My point was that she still believed him to be the perp even with evidence to the contrary. Theists still believe in this creator with no evidence either way. As I said before, Occams Razor dictates the creator to be an unnecessary entity.Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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10. You vigorously deny the existence of God, yet you frequently blame Him for all the "evils" in the world, all the natural disasters, and everything else under the sun that is wrong in modern society. But it would be a sign of a sophisticated debater who can both deny the existence of God while also being able to point out that one of the consequences of the existence of God would be its moral culpability in the creation and perpetuation of evil.
9. You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when creationists say that people were created in the image and likeness of God, but you have no problem with the evolutionist claim that we all evolved from slime by a cosmic accident. I've never come across such a creature. Furthermore, I see nothing that is either insulting or dehumanizing about being a human that is descended from non-humans.
8. You criticize fundamental Christians who believe the Bible, and say that it can't possibly be true because it's just a book written by mere men, yet you never question any of Darwin's writings or Richard Dawkins' books. Yep that would be foolish, but I have yet to see an atheist that believes in the infallibility of the written word of Darwin or Dawkins.
7. You can't seem to understand the primary differences between fundamental Muslims and fundamental Christians (hint: strap-on TNT. Plus - Muhammad says, kill innocent people and yourself if you love me. Jesus Christ said, I’ll die for you because I love you). I would say that it would be a sign of a foolish Christian who supposes that a fundamentalist Muslim believes killing innocents is justified. I know some fundamentalist Muslims and they are adamant that killing innocent people is not only unjustified but a grotesque sin that will result in the burning in hell of the transgressor. There are extremist Muslims that believe it is justified to kill people that I, as a humanist, consider innocent (but they themselves believe are suitably guilty). But then, there are extremist Christians who have murdered, or supported murder and torture of people that as a humanist, I consider to be innocent (but who they consider to be murderers (such as doctors that perform abortions), or heathens (such as with the Inquisition)).
6. You say the Bible is full of fairytales and fables, yet you believe all life forms including plants, trees, insects, birds, fish, reptiles and mammals evolved from one species into another - As if evolution isn’t the biggest fairytale of them all. I don't think that the Bible constitutes a fairy tale, though some aspects of it are clearly in the same form as fables (talking animals and moral points to make through metaphor, allusion and analogy etc). Evolution isn't a fairy tale, it contains no princesses, no supernatural elements and no fairies. It is also not a fable since it has no moral point to make and has no animals speaking human languages or any other hallmarks of fairytales and fables. I would say that calling an observed and evidentially supported process a work of fiction designed to impart some moral statement or teach some other important life lesson would be the work of a foolish theist.
5. You laugh at the Supernatural, even though scientists have calculated the odds of life forming by natural processes to be estimated less than 1 chance in 10 to the 40,ooo power — But you find nothing wrong with believing that billions of years full of random mutations would result in the impossible. Scientists have calculated no such thing. Since we have yet to learn exactly how life originated, it is impossible to calculate the probability of that event occurring. I have not met an atheist that thought there was nothing wrong with billions of years of random mutations resulting in the impossible. I have met many atheists who agree that mutations along with selection pressures can result in the improbable over long time scales.
4. You accuse fundamental Christians of being intolerant, judgmental and hateful, while you foam at the mouth calling them freaking lunatics, ignorant, weak-minded, stupid fundies, and hateful bigots. I fail to see what is foolish about getting upset that some subset of people are generally intolerant, judgemental and hateful. Surely we should be upset that there are such people. At best you might succeed in a charge of hypocrisy here, though I don't think it is hateful or intolerant to say someone is hateful and intolerant.
3. You ignore scientific concepts like cause and effect, and you don't realize that a closed system can be defined however the observer wants, so you throw out technological phrases to try to ignore the implications of thermodynamics by saying the laws of physics are not set in stone. Cause and effect is a philosophical concept (called determinism), not a scientific one. I've never met an atheist that ignores determinism. From the rest of the rant, it appears you might be upset that some atheists draw a distinction between observations of things within the universe applying to the universe itself. I don't think that making this distinction implies a person is foolish. But I've long since given up trying to understand anti-evolutionists when they bring upthermodynamics since it almost universally foolish, and this point does not seem to be an exception to this rule.
2. While all evidence, logic and reasoning point to a Creator and absolute truth, you prefer to hide behind relativism and a theory of evolution which does not, in fact, describe the creation of the universe at all, or why concepts of good and evil or morality exist. The evidence/logic/reasoning does not point to a Creator. That would be the position of an atheist, not just our hypothetical foolish atheist. Atheists are very vocal in trying to tell people that the theory of evolution is nothing to do with the creation of the universe and it is foolish theists that see this as being somehow problematic. Though evolution (along with its mathematical cousin, Game Theory) has successfully explained why good and evil exists. Start a thread, I'll be happy to educate on the matter.
1. *Atheism fails to adequately explain the existence of eternal, unchanging truths, for it rejects the existence of an eternal unchanging mind. Atheism cannot offer man any eternal significance whatsoever. Temporary meaning in life is insufficient, for our accomplishments die with the death of the universe -- there is no ultimate purpose in a universe void of God. I'm not sure why this is a sign of someone being a foolish atheist, it seems to be a criticism of atheism in general. Anyway, atheism not only fails to explain the 'existence of eternal, unchanging truths' it also fails to explain the 'existence of temporal, changing truths'. It does this because atheism is not an explanation of anything. It is the lack of belief in deities, for whatever reason. Atheism doesn't offer meaning or morality, but neither does theism. Atheistic philosophies can provide those things, just as theistic philosophies can. But simply theism tells us nothing about meaning or morality or significance or purpose.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Edited by Tangle, : Wrong reply buttonLife, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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This has all the hallmarks of a drive-by posting.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Chuck77 writes:
Hilarious.Top Ten Signs You're a Foolish Atheist ... But why did you start a new thread, instead of posting in humor. Come to think of it, that's what's hilarious - that you actually thought this was serious enough to warrant a new thread.Jesus was a liberal hippie
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I find it sad and deserving only of pity that Chuck77 would post something so obviously false and sophomoric.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped! |
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4220 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
10. You vigorously deny the existence of God, yet you frequently blame Him for all the "evils" in the world, all the natural disasters, and everything else under the sun that is wrong in modern society. I have yet to see an Atheist call any natural disaster an "Act of God" I leave that to the Fundies.
9. You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when creationists say that people were created in the image and likeness of God, but you have no problem with the evolutionist claim that we all evolved from slime by a cosmic accident." Since an Atheist believes in no gods, how can one be "created in the likeness of one.?"
8. You criticize fundamental Christians who believe the Bible, and say that it can't possibly be true because it's just a book written by mere men, yet you never question any of Darwin's writings or Richard Dawkins' books. I question anything that does not have ample evidence to back it up be it the Bible , Darwin or anything else.
7. You can't seem to understand the primary differences between fundamental Muslims and fundamental Christians (hint: strap-on TNT. Plus - Muhammad says, kill innocent people and yourself if you love me. Jesus Christ said, I’ll die for you because I love you). Since the Koran is not the word of Mohammad and the Bible is not the word of Christ, the point is moot.
6. You say the Bible is full of fairytales and fables, yet you believe all life forms including plants, trees, insects, birds, fish, reptiles and mammals evolved from one species into another - As if evolution isn’t the biggest fairytale of them all. The bible is a bunch of fables, allegories, myths, legends and historical fiction. No physical evidence, whereas evolution does have physical evidence to back it up.
5. You laugh at the Supernatural, even though scientists have calculated the odds of life forming by natural processes to be estimated less than 1 chance in 10 to the 40,ooo power — But you find nothing wrong with believing that billions of years full of random mutations would result in the impossible. Unless the odds are 1 to 0, it is possible.
4. You accuse fundamental Christians of being intolerant, judgmental and hateful, while you foam at the mouth calling them freaking lunatics, ignorant, weak-minded, stupid fundies, and hateful bigots. If the shoe fits, wear it.
3. You ignore scientific concepts like cause and effect, and you don't realize that a closed system can be defined however the observer wants, so you throw out technological phrases to try to ignore the implications of thermodynamics by saying the laws of physics are not set in stone. Nothing in science is set in stone, we leave that for religious fanatics.
2. While all evidence, logic and reasoning point to a Creator and absolute truth, you prefer to hide behind relativism and a theory of evolution which does not, in fact, describe the creation of the universe at all, or why concepts of good and evil or morality exist. Show me this evidence
1. *Atheism fails to adequately explain the existence of eternal, unchanging truths, for it rejects the existence of an eternal unchanging mind. Atheism cannot offer man any eternal significance whatsoever. Temporary meaning in life is insufficient, for our accomplishments die with the death of the universe -- there is no ultimate purpose in a universe void of God. Atheism doesn't attempt to explain anything, Atheism is simply a belief in no deities. And what is an unchanging truth?There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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