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Author Topic:   Assumptions
subbie
Member (Idle past 1284 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 8 of 37 (651236)
02-05-2012 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by amp1022
02-05-2012 10:00 PM


When they see a living thing, don't most people assume it has at least one parent?
No. That's a conclusion based on evidence.
When you see a "man-made" object, don't you assume it was made by a man (or woman)?
No. That's a tautology.
I would say that creationism should be added to that list of assumptions everyone makes.
No, not people who have studied and understood the evidence.
Simple common sense will answer most questions that science struggles with.
Science answers questions based on evidence. Why should we consider the "common sense" opinions of people who haven't even studied the evidence?

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by amp1022, posted 02-05-2012 10:00 PM amp1022 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by amp1022, posted 02-06-2012 11:36 AM subbie has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1284 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 10 of 37 (651239)
02-05-2012 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by crashfrog
02-05-2012 10:31 PM


Based on common sense, matter is solid, the sun goes around the Earth, and there are no supernatural entities affecting life on this planet.
Well, one out of three ain't bad.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by crashfrog, posted 02-05-2012 10:31 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1284 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 18 of 37 (651318)
02-06-2012 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by amp1022
02-06-2012 11:36 AM


You don't need evidence to know that every person and every animal you see was brought into the world by a parent.
Of course you do. The only way we know anything at all about the world is through the evidence that we observe.
Let me put it this way: suppose I were to challenge your claim that every person and every animal was brought into the world by a parent. How would you prove to me that it's true?
At what point in your life did you sit down and study every mammal in the world to be sure that they all have parents? You did not.
Nope, I never did. But it's absurd to think that I have to personally research every facet of a particular subject to know anything about it.
And finally, how exactly dose creation not answer every single question about anything? It was made that way by a divine being...simple.
But the evidence that we see in the natural world shows that this is not the case. Either that or the divine being used a method that precisely duplicates what we would see if life evolved.
What's more, the answer that it was made that way by a divine being doesn't answer every single question. How did the being do it? Why did the being do it? Why did the being make it look as though life had evolved? Those are three questions off the top of my head that are not answered by your "simple" statement.
The problem you have is you believe that your own "common sense" conclusion should trump the evidence that is found in the natural world. It doesn't.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by amp1022, posted 02-06-2012 11:36 AM amp1022 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by amp1022, posted 02-07-2012 11:51 AM subbie has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1284 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 24 of 37 (651444)
02-07-2012 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by amp1022
02-07-2012 11:51 AM


You take for granted that all living things have a parent, because it is such a simple concept that it requires no evidence to prove it.
No. I conclude that based on the evidence, as do you, even though you don't understand that you do.
I realize that there is plenty of evidence to support evolution,...
Perhaps. But you certainly don't understand it...
...but that dose not DISPROVE creation in any way.
...or you wouldn't say that...
No amount of evidence can justify a ridiculous idea that itself breaks the first law of thermodynamics.
...or that.
And no amount of rhetoric can get around the fact that the ToE doesn't violate any laws of thermodynamics.
I agree that common sense could never explain a humans beings genetic make-up or a cows digestive process.
No, the evidence explains that.
But the question posed by the EvC debate is actually a fairly simple one. Dose the universe have a parent or not?
Since there's no evidence whatsoever of anything that could constitute a "parent" as that word is commonly understood, if that were the central question of the debate, the answer would be a resounding NO.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by amp1022, posted 02-07-2012 11:51 AM amp1022 has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1284 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 33 of 37 (651517)
02-07-2012 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by amp1022
02-07-2012 7:24 PM


Despite your repeated claims to the contrary, it is a demonstrable fact that it required evidence to establish that every living being has a parent.
You may be familiar with the phrase "spontaneous generation." It's an idea that's older than Aristotle and was a commonly accepted idea until disproven, ultimately, by Pasteur (although he built on the work of others before him).
For centuries, it wasn't an obvious truth that life came from life. It wasn't until evidence proved the falsity of spontaneous generation that it was abandoned. It's only obvious today because of the evidence that Pasteur and others produced.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by amp1022, posted 02-07-2012 7:24 PM amp1022 has not replied

  
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