The Awesome Obama Thread II

As an outsider Obama's presidency to date seems like a disappointment. But as an outsider it also seems that the expectations he fostered during his election campaign were, with hindsight (and frankly even without hindsight for those with a less idealistic disposition), impossible to meet.As one who definitely does have an idealistic disposition I would have definitely voted for the guy if I was American. As an idealist I feel very betrayed by the Obama presidency despite the fact that I am not American.Obama's eloquence and superficial high sounding idealism gave people what they wanted to hear after years of Bush and neo-con lunacy. The whole world breathed a huge fucking sigh of relief and hope when he got elected. Intelligent. Articulate. Seemingly in tune with global attitudes to American imperialism, acts of torture and the balance between liberty and security. His economic strategy sounded sane rather than ideological. His approach to international relations conciliatory and inspirational rather than antagonistic and isolationist. A "modern leader for the modern world" and all that sort of high minded sounding jazz.So what went wrong? Well as an outsider I can't give you the same in depth answer to that question as the likes of Crashfrog or Rahvin. The honest answer is that I don't really know. But I can, and am going to, give you my impressions. For what they are worth.Obama turned out not to be an idealist so much as an overly pragmatic career politician willing to compromise on pretty much everything that many of those who voted (or supported from afar) felt was uncompromisable. There seems to be no issue on which he will take an absolute stand.And yet he is faced with the most lunatic, fringe-crazy Republican opposition probably ever. To compromise with them seems to mean relentlessly giving in to the near-crazy. When only one side will compromise it becomes a one-sided game. And Obama seems to always be on the not-really-winning side on every significant issue.In some ways I feel for the guy. It seems like he wanted to genuinely do something radical on US healthcare. But the complex US politics of the situation, the rise of the crazies in the form of the tea-party and the realities of governing in a lobbying fundraising world seemed to put paid all to easily to any genuinely idealistic notions Obama might have held.And the same can be said for so many issues. Guantanamo. Iraq. Bush tax cuts. Etc. etc.I'm no expert. My opinion in many respects isn't worth shit on this. But I suspect that a large number of discontented Obama supporters both in the US and elsewhere might share my same feelings of disappointment and agree with my (admittedly rather vague) notions as to why that is.Feel free to ignore......

As an idealist, who can you even begin to think of that can solve the problems that America now faces? (Enter AntiChrist, stage left ) I think that come next election. Obama is the best candidate that we have. Nobody else (except maybe Ron Paul) even has a clue as to the enormity of the problem.

Pragmatically I would still vote for Obama over the alternatives. But as an idealist I would have to grit my teeth and close my eyes as I did so.All of which is entirely moot because I don't get to vote in your elections anyway.How do you feel Phat? What did you vote last time? Why? What will you vote this time? Why?Whatever perspective one holds surely all can see that much of Obama's shine has gone?

Come on Phat, get serious.Have you not seen the relative value of the US dollar to the Canadian dollar, the Australian dollar?

Last time i voted for Obama because the union backed him, and told us that he was best for our cause. Now? We are slowly sinking, but it doesnt appear to be his fault. I guess the bill has to be paid one way or another, though I prefer my corporate bosses pay it rather than I.

I tend to take a candidate's positions during the campaign as a sort of list of ideals. Kind of an "If I were supreme tyrant of the US and could do as I wished, this is what I would do," sort of thing.Of course, that's not entirely true, as there is a fair amount of pandering involved as well. I'm an idealistic cynic. I want to believe the best about people, but I tend to assume that they're lying or that something is going to hinder them from fulfilling their promise. Obama came into the presidency promising to "change the culture" in Washington, DC. Unfortunately, he can't really do that. In order to get anything done, especially as a President with no real legislative powers, he has to get things passed by a divided congress, and more than that, a congress where half of the members are actively trying to stop you from doing anything.His idealism (and I truly believe he is an idealist) ran smack into reality, and he definitely stumbled. He compromised too much in an attempt to be "bipartisan" which only served to make him look weak. he has since started fighting back more, compromising less, but it takes a while before the first impression wears off. This is where idealism is dashed on the shores of reality. When you're up against a force that is intent on blocking your every move, it becomes a question of, "Do I compromise to get something done, or do I stand my ground, let both sides become entrenched, and stop anything from getting done at all?" The problem is, despite being called "The Leader of the Free World," the president doesn't have any more power than that of the bully pulpit. He can't introduce legislation in the congress, he can't vote on legislation, all he can do is try to get the people to agree with him so vocally that congress has to pass legislation in order to be reelected.Another issue is that, while Republicans are very much a "lockstep" party, wheras the Democrats have a hard time defining anyhting they all agree on.

Yes, I am disappointed in the way things have gone. However, overall, I think Obama has done a pretty good job given the circumstance.He has made one big "mistake." That "mistake" was to be born chocolate, rather than vanilla.Dubya "won" the 2000 election in a rather dubious manner. Some say that he won 5-4. Even though the election was questionable, I accepted dubya as president. There are millions of Americans who refuse to accept that Obama is their president, for the simple reason that he is black. Racism runs very deep in American veins.On paper, the US Government is a system with a weak executive, strong legislature. In practice, it has usually been one of a strong presidency. But the strength of the presidency comes from the use of the bully pulpit. When a large number of Americans refuse to accept Obama as president, purely because they are racists, the bully pulpit loses much of its effectiveness.So what if Hillary had won the last election? Well, sorry to say, but sexism runs almost as deeply as racism.I expect to be voting for another Obama term.

Obama was always a pragmatist. Sure, he had to campaign for the votes of the idealists. But to those of us paying attention, it was clear all along that he was a pragmatist.

Does your union ever advise you to vote anything other than Democrat?Here in the UK the Labour party (which I guess is vaguely analogous to the Democrat party all cultural and historical aspets and differences vaguely taken into account) is largely funded by the unions.Is it different over there?

I don't feel qualified enough to agree or disagree with much of your post. So I'll just say I that I enjoyed your reply. Some might say the price of collective intelligence is indecision.....

Speaking as a once disgruntled hillary supporter, I missed my chance to vote last time because I forgot to register at the city I had just moved to. I also wasn't very motivated to vote then.I'll be voting Obama this time around. I think he has done the best job that he could possibly do under the current circumstances.My question to the conservatives is what rights have we lost under Obama and how can they justify comparing Obama to hitler? I'm still at a loss on that.

We seem to have lost the right to watch our poorer brothers and sisters keel over and die for lack of health care. It's as if Aesop's fable about the grasshopper and the ant had never been written.

You know, I hear this a lot and I think you're allowing conservo-tard swipes about "President Messiah" to color your recollection.Obama didn't run on a platform of idealism or grand promises. He ran on a platform of pragmatism. If you'll recall, his acceptance speech message was that we, not he were "the ones we've been waiting for." Since the get-go the Obama message has been overwhelmingly that we would all have to work together to effect change, that he wasn't a Magic Chocolate Jesus who would be able to do it for us. The iconic "Hope" image:was not the creation of his campaign, but a completely unrelated image created by an artist. "Hope and change" is not a phrase that appears in any Obama campaign speech or Presidential address; that was a mocking parody created by Republicans.Obama never promised anything but that our struggles were only beginning. But, predictably, liberals put a black president in the White House and figured we were done. Every one of us woke up in January 21st 2009 and said "ok, election's over, now we can stop worrying about politics", disassembled an enormous grassroots campaign organization, forgot the phone numbers and mailing addresses of our representatives and senators, forgot that it takes 60 votes to pass something in the Senate if any single Senator asks for a cloture vote, and then sat back and waited for our ponies to be delivered. Really? How about Lily Ledbetter?And this seems to fly in the face of basic negotiating tactics. Recall that it's the goal - the win condition - for Republicans when they can prevent the President from taking any action whatsoever. A failed or vetoed bill is a Republican win. So when the President says "it's either my way or no way", he's basically giving Republicans a simple choice: hand the President a win that costs Republicans at the polls, or easily achieve everything they want. Wow, I wonder which one they would take? Really? When did it ever "seem" like he wanted to do something "radical" on US health care? Have you completely forgotten the Democratic primary debates?You've allowed conservative complaints about "radical Socialism" and "social engineering" to color your recollection of a campaign that was, overwhelmingly, about pragmatic solutions to our problems. Obama never promised a radical reimagining of the American health care system, because he's always known that such a thing would be impossible.I'm not trying to jump down your throat, and I realize that your perception of the Obama campaign was colored by whatever media filtered over to your side of the ocean. But the notion that the Obama presidency has been some kind of failed experiment in radicalism is just plain false. Obama started out a pragmatist, he campaigned as a pragmatist, he won the primary and general on a platform of pragmatic achievement, and his administration has been marked by one pragmatic success after another. You can't blame Obama for not being the President he never, ever promised to be.

The real value of the dollar is the value of all of the goods and services for sale in the United States (or anywhere else US dollars are taken as payment). Since we don't pay off US debt by sending China our goods and service providers, how does Chinese ownership of US debt "squander our wealth" or change the real value of the dollar?I keep asking you questions about these financial issues and you keep betraying your complete ignorance with these handwaving deepities.

Don't be ridiculous. They all support the 1%.Who do you think pays their campaign expenses?