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Author | Topic: Endtime Prophecy and the European Union | |||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: Technically, not Julius Caesar, then (Rome was not an Empire in his lifetime). Galba, Othos and Vitellius ARE included in The Twelve Caesars and therefore definitely should count. So that's 3 more for your count. (And do we have to wait for the history of those times to be written before we can call your "seventh" a "Caesar" at all ? Waiting for the historians would not seem wise!)
quote: Except that 8 had already "fallen". And we still don't have a reason why your "seventh" would be included but no other Emperors after Domitian.
quote: And that would exclude your hypothetical "seventh", just as it excludes Commodus. So, by your criteria, if we include Julius, the seventh Caesar to "fall" is Otho, already dead at the time of writing. I guess that your interpretation is wrong.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: By the criteria you listed the seventh was dead before Domitian became Emperor.
quote: I don't have an infatuation with individual Caesars. I'm just interested in the truth. And the truth is that you are wrong.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: By your criteria Domitian was the 9th.
quote: Even you should be able to realise that having "fallen" is one of your criteria for being a"Caesar", so this would be redundant.
quote: Unless we have some valid criteria for identifying "Caesars" this isn't really a prediction, is it ? Look, I know that your ego is wrapped up in this but the truth is that you are wrong.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: You manage to answer yourself. Your count of "Caesars" only includes the "fallen". Except that you managed to miss three.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
You're not answering anything I wrote. But for the record the Star is just a legend and doesn't refer to anything that actually happened. Using it to date Jesus' birth cannot work for this reason.
In fact we can't reliably date Jesus' birth at all since the only two writers who give anything datable point to different dates (the author of the Gospel of Matthew points to a birth no later than 4BC, the author of Luke pointing to 6AD).
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: I don't know why I have to keep telling you this, but at the time you assign to the writing EIGHT Caesars had died unnatural deaths. Are you ever going to deal with this fact ?
quote: Well you could make it clearer by explaining how you created these groups instead of just insisting that we blindly accept your interpretation.
quote: So much for coming here to "test your ideas". f the truth is "irrelevant" to you, why bother ?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: Oh it's quite clear. You don't have a clue what you're talking about which is why you go on about vague irrelevancies.
quote: By which you REALLY mean that you put your ignorant opinions ahead of the truth. How long does it take you to just find a list of The Twelve Caesars and find out how many died unnatural deaths ? Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
I'm getting the numbers from PaulGL who states:
At the time John wrote the book of Revelation, Domitian, the sixth Caesar, was in power. Before the reign of Domitian, there had reigned five Caesars who had died unnatural deaths (are fallen) through murder or suicide. The first four of these (in chronological order) were Julius Caesar, Tiberius Caesar, Caligula, and Claudius Caesar. Physically, the Antichrist will rise to power suddenly as the seventh Caesar over a revived Roman Empire.
Suetonius includes Vitellius as one of the Twelve Caesars so by PaulGL's criteria he should be counted, too.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
So, is it that your knowledge of the Biblical image ends with "a woman riding on a beast" or do you just choose to ignore the parts that don't fit ?
Anyone familiar with the actual images would recognise the statue as being Europa and nothing to do with Revelation.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: So when you said that they "recognise" is as the woman riding a beast from Revelation, you mean that they know perfectly well that it is quite different in every other respect, but choose to make the identification regardless. I'd class that under choosing to ignore much of the Biblical description.
quote: I don't insist on the statues being anything. I do suggest that people who are actually familiar with the Bible can't honestly recognise either statue as an image from Revelation because they obviously aren't.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: I can only go on what you say. I can't read your mind and decide that you meant something else. Now I can guess that people might be vaguely reminded of Revelation and yet dismiss it because of the obvious differences - and the far better match with Europa. But that isn't what you mean at all.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: Or in the context of the only image you have produced that actually references it, it refers to people speaking different languages. Now if you want to argue that God doesn't want people who speak different languages to work together, I guess you'd have a case, but I very much doubt that any of the traditions you favour interpret the Bible that way.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: Then I guess you haven't got a case. If the obvious message is acceptable to you then imagining that there is some other meaning would require at least some supporting evidence.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
I would say that while your opinion might be subjective there is a good deal that is objective here. It is objective fact that the statue does not resemble the image of Revelation to any significant extent - and you made a similar argument about the other statue, so it's clear that you concede that this fact is relevant.
Whether the statues are intended to represent the image of Revelation is another question of fact, and the evidence is clear that they are not. Whether the author of Revelation had anything like these statues in mind is also a question of fact and even if it can't be answered definitively it's pretty clear that you don't have much of a case. So what's really going on here ? Is it simply desperation to find SOME sign that the End Times of your mythology (and I don't mean the Bible!) are upon us ? Or is it something else ?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
How can you "recognise" it and why does the absence of a beast in the other statue matter, if the appearance of the statue is completely irrelevant ?
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