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Author | Topic: The Divine signature in the Torah | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Some people doubt the fact that the Torah is of divine origin. Fortunately, for those we have the divine signature in the Torah, something that is totally unique to the Torah, namely the codes woven into the Torah. But even if we suppose that all these things like you've described were the result of an intelligent stunt to hide or bury words in subtle ways included into Biblical texts, I still wonder why you would think this was utterly divine. By what sign could we all conclude that this literature was designed by the Omnipotent instead of a determined man? But perhaps you doubt that a clever chap could ever manage such a thing. This paragraph indicates that yes he could.
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upposethatal lthesethings likeyou'vede scribedweret heresultofan intelligents tunttohideor burywordsins ubtlewaysinc ludedintoBib licaltexts,I stillwonderw hyyouwouldth inkthiswasut terlydivine. Bywhatsignco uldweallconc ludethatthis literaturewa sdesignedbyt heOmnipotent insteadofade terminedman? Butperhapsyo udoubtthatac leverchapcou ldevermanage suchathing.T hisparagraph indicatestha tyeshecould. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Yes, I mean something like that, but then woven into an existing text that actually makes sense. That text does exist and actually makes sense. How about you answer it?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Isn't that amazing? But the examples you give are much much less amazing than almost any such acrostic formed by mere humans. This one written here without too great an effort by far exceeds - in quantity, and in quality - the rather dull acrostics you wish to attribute to the wisdom of the Almighty. Why He didn't design acrostics better than I can is up to you to say; I'd like to propose the likelihood of God's not really being the author; I feel this elucidates the otherwise hard and obscure problem. You say that God made all the acrostics? Allow me to suggest,sir, that if Yahweh had done so, they'd indubitably be better than these risible efforts, as a four-part-fugue would exceed in its quality the duller nursery rhymes, or as the greatest novels in comparison to a stupid anecdote. To be honest, the odd quirks and features listed in your post look interesting as coincidences; as handiworks of some intelligent artist they really suck.
Buttheexamplesyougivearemuchmuch lessamazingthana lmostanysuchacro sticformedbymere humans.Thisonewr ittenherewithout toogreataneffort byfarexceeds-inq uantity,andinqua lity-theratherdu llacrosticsyouwi shtoattributetot hewisdomoftheAlm ighty.WhyHedidn' tdesignacrostics betterthanIcanis uptoyoutosay;I'd liketoproposethe likelihoodofGod' snotreallybeingt heauthor;Ifeelth iselucidatestheo therwisehardando bscureproblem.Yo usaythatGodmadea lltheacrostics?A llowmetosuggest, sir,thatifYahweh haddoneso,they'd indubitablybebet terthantheserisi bleefforts,asafo ur-part-fuguewou ldexceedinitsqua litythedullernur seryrhymes,orast hegreatestnovels incomparisontoas tupidanecdote.To behonest,theoddq uirksandfeatures listedinyourpost lookinterestinga scoincidences;as handiworksofsome intelligentartis ttheyreallysuck.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Megilah means scroll, and megilat means scroll of. The scroll with the book of Esther on it is called megilat Esther, which means the scroll of Esther, or Esther scroll. So the only place in the Torah where the word esther appears, there is coded with a skip of 12,111, the amount of letters in the book of Esther, the word scroll, which together makes Esther scroll. By the way, would you condescend to telll us why, if God truly wrote this, he was forced to employ the expedience of writing "megilah" if the correct word is by accurate Hebrew usage really "megilat"? With so great latitude for His dispositions of all the letters, we'd think that He could do the job better, no?
Bytheway,wouldyoucondescendtotel lluswhy,ifGodtru lywrotethis,hewa sforcedtoemployt heexpedienceofwr iting"megilah"if thecorrectwordis byaccurateHebrew usagereally"megi lat"?Withsogreat latitudeforHisdi spositionsofallt heletters,we'dth inkthatHecoulddo thejobbetter,no?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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12,111? Really? Damn right. Me, I go writing stuff that is a whole lot harder to implement and still somehow no-one's ready to grovel, and to worship me as a god. Really, I wonder what signs I have to show to people on this forum before I acquire the respect I deserve.
Damnright.Me,Igowritingstuffthatis awholelotharderto implementandstill somehowno-one'sre adytogrovel,andto worshipmeasagod.R eally,Iwonderwhat signsIhavetoshowt opeopleonthisforu mbeforeIacquireth erespectIdeserve.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
We found megilat Esther encoded in the book of Genesis. No.
Isn't that amazing? No.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Do you come with a promise of eternal happiness and plenty of virgins? My heaven is actually stocked with women who've been round the block a few times and know their way around. Who the heck wants a virgin?
If so, where do I send the cheque? One of the most sacred tenets of my religion is that I only take cash.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Let's just add statistics to the list of things you don't understand and move on, eh?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Isn't that weird, that something with a so obvious fallacy, passes through six years of peer review, by the worlds best statisticians? How did you rank the world's statisticians, what with you knowing bugger-all about statistics?
Those combinations were of course predicted in advance. That would either be a huge retarded lie, or something for which you have evidence. And so far I've not seen any evidence.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Look into the Great Rabbis Experiment and you'll see. So you're not going to show us any evidence? Gee, how did I guess?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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I might not understand it, but at the peer reviewed journal Statiscal Science, there they do understand it. Thank you for that admission. So since the same journal tore this imaginary Bible code into shreds and jumped up and down on the pieces, you will now admit that it's stupid, yes? * does not hold breath *
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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So what is it ignorance or deceit? Let's not be narrow-minded. Why can't it be both?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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No, because more peer reviewed articles have been released on the subject, ripping the supposed "refutation" to shreds, and jumping up and down on the pieces, while at the same time thoroughly establishing the Bible codes. As you're mathematically illiterate, I'm not going to take your word for whose papers are better than whose.
For the finer details see message 71. It has fine details? Where? Do I have to read every seventh letter?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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In 2006, at the 18th International Pattern Recognition Conference, which took place in Hong Kong, there were six papers published in support of the Torah codes. All of these papers were subject to peer review, which means that fellow scientists reviewed the papers and could note any flaw in the research or logic that they might find. Were they to find an uncorrectable flaw, the paper would be rejected. And yet somehow these alleged six papers don't appear in the program of the conference or in the published proceedings of the conference. Nor does Gans himself. So this looks like a great big lie with a topping of bullshit sauce.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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What he said was "In 2006, at the 18th International Pattern Recognition Conference, which took place in Hong Kong, there were six papers published in support of the Torah codes." I don't see what it can mean for a paper to be published (rather than read) at a conference, unless it means that the paper appeared in the Proceedings of the conference, which they didn't.
So what does Gans mean? Does he mean, as you suggest, that he put on his own unofficial unscheduled sideshow at the time and place where the conference was being held? But then the papers were still not published at the conference. All this makes nonsense --- double nonsense --- of his claim that:
According to scientific rules, in order for critics to disprove the Torah codes, they would have to find fatal flaws in each of the six papers presenting a different approach and a different code. This happened five years ago, and to date not a single flaw was found in any of these papers. Therefore, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over. Apart from the fact that science doesn't work like that (which is why no-one has ever been awarded a Nobel Prize In Triviality And Obscurity), if the papers aren't there in the scientific literature for anyone to pick holes in, then the alleged fact that no-one has done so is neither here nor there.
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