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Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coragyps Member (Idle past 765 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined:
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Think of going to a major university and spending a few days paging through Chemical Abstracts, for a starter. Start about 1950, or maybe even 1930. I'm going to bet that plenty of carbon has been bombarded by protons, and that there are PhD theses on the results. Take a lunch - though you may have to leave it outside the building.
Just because something is scientific knowledge, there is no guarantee that it is on the internet. A lot of science was done before 1995. Though Google Scholar could turn up something..
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JonF Member (Idle past 198 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Whic has nothing to do with his claim that supercooling would turn 40Ar into 40K. Try again, I didn't make that claim. I was investigating possibilities. Did you notice Ar-41 and Ar-42 also? A common characteristic of nutjobs is not keeping their stories straight.
Decays of Argon-40 to Potassium-40 could be made by supercooling. It hasn't been tried, especially with proton bombardment. How would you know then? We understand the process. I don't know if it's been tested; not all incredibly stupid ideas are worth testing. Another characteristic of nutjobs is never admitting error. You claimed you never said 40Ar could be turned into 40K; when I demonstrated your error you ignored it. An honest person would have said "Oh, yeah, I did say that". And what's this "especially with proton bombardment" stuff"? Remember you wrote:
Decays of Argon-40 to Potassium-40 could be made by supercooling. I don't know if rapid protons would be necessary. Now you're saying that it's likely proton bombardment is necessary? Can't keep your story straight. And protons?? 40K decays to 40Ar by emitting a gamma ray and a neutrino.
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OS Member (Idle past 3301 days) Posts: 67 Joined: |
I think it has more to do with bodily processes, but I am thinking I confused myself about results from corpses and wood.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I think it has more to do with bodily processes, but I am thinking I confused myself about results from corpses and wood. You really should do a thorough review of the basic literature on C14. You are confusing different concepts pretty badly.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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OS Member (Idle past 3301 days) Posts: 67 Joined: |
Another characteristic of nutjobs is never admitting error. You claimed you never said 40Ar could be turned into 40K; Notice I didn't say that, but implied it. This is all shown by your quotes.
Now you're saying that it's likely proton bombardment is necessary? Ar-40 is a stable isotope. I don't think it would be stupid to try, but it would be complicated, an it might not be as successful as with other Argon isotopes. Edited by OS, : No reason given.
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JonF Member (Idle past 198 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Except that we KNOW that exponential decay matches the evidence and linear decay doesn't.
No, you really don't. It is a thermodynamic calculation It's a statistical calculation, and exponential decay has been observed literally millions of time. Linear decay has never been observed.
and there is nothing to suggest isotopic concentrations don't have full lives. WTF? I take it you don't understand the concept of half-life?
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Note: I haven't verified the links lately.
ReligiousTolerance.org Carbon-14 Dating (C-14): Beliefs of New-Earth Creationists Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against. |
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I think it has more to do with bodily processes, ... Another amusing fantasy.
... but I am thinking I confused myself about results from corpses and wood. And more than likely confused about the purpose of 14C dating of corpses (or other organic matter) and the purpose of 14C dating wood (tree rings used to calibrate the 14C process). Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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Ar-40 is a stable isotope. I don't think it would be stupid to try, but it would be complicated, an it might not be as successful as with other Argon isotopes. Why bother? What possible relevance could the outcome of that experiment have on the topic of this thread "Age Correlations and An Old Earth"? Your odd, disjointed ramblings remind me of Tesla, a former member here who also could not write a coherent sentence. What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 888 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined:
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I have done everything I can think of so far I have been reading though this thread, and honestly, I have no idea what you are trying to establish here. Are you just saying random things related to radiometric dating or is there actually some point you are trying to establish??? I think the whole discussion would benefit if you took a minute and clearly made your case so that it is clear what your position is and what you are trying to accomplish through this discussion. HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Ar-40 is a stable isotope. I don't think it would be stupid to try, but it would be complicated, an it might not be as successful as with other Argon isotopes. If you bombared Ar40 with protons, what isotope would you expect to produce? Hint: not K40.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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OS Member (Idle past 3301 days) Posts: 67 Joined: |
According to some papers, it seemed, Calcium-40 and I would add a neutron.
I misred the paper. I would have said potassium-41. No, I really don't know. You have to have the physical environment perfect and sometimes there are by-products. Your answer is probably more in depth. Edit: I found a few article which support 41K for sure, and some seem to say 41Ar is possible. I would have to look at it closely though. Edit: nope 41K is the isotope alone. Edited by OS, : No reason given. Edited by OS, : No reason given. Edited by OS, : No reason given. Edited by OS, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Edit: nope 41K is the isotope alone Okay. But let's assume instead that a proton involvement was possible and that it would reverse the decay of 40K. What would be the effect of such a bombardment on radiometric dating? Would testing without knowing about the bombardment produce dates that are too high or too low? And my final question? So what's your point?Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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OS Member (Idle past 3301 days) Posts: 67 Joined: |
I wanted to prove Ar40 is difficult to produce or happens easily sometimes, and thus unlikely to be indicate ages. I went to far by wondering if the reverse direction was easier.
There is a way to reverse it, but it is strange and seems to take more effort. So the only thing I can say, and it goes against conventional understanding, is that 40K/40Ar decay requires a neutron and the expulsion of a proton. Is there such a decay or is it 39K/40Ar? Yet my skepticism probably sounds silly. Edited by OS, : No reason given.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
From your post it sounds like you are hoping to stumble upon some reason to conclude that old earth dating methods are incorrect.
Would this be a correct summary?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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