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Author | Topic: The Search for Moderate Islam | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
FYI, this is a statement from the Muslim Council of Britain
Not in our Name: British Muslims Condemn the Barbarity of ISIS 20 August 2014 The Muslim Council of Britain once again condemned the actions of the so called Islamic State in Syria and the Levant, ISIS. Today we express once again our rebuke of this reprehensible organisation. We are horrified at the abhorrent murder of James Foley, a reporter who initially went to the region to expose the human rights abuses of the Syrian regime. ISIS has murdered this man for no reason at all. Each day ISIS seeks to carry out an act more barbarous than the day before, craving the oxygen of publicity to give credibility to their heinous acts. We condemn unreservedly their psychopathic violence, whether it is on minorities, on civilians, or on fellow Muslims.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm. |
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Catholic writes: So, if someone where to claim that "Islam teaches moderation", what would they use to support that claim? They're pretty easy to find if you care to look (and their origins are quite obvious) Respect and honour all human beings irrespective of their religion, colour,race, sex, language, status, property, birth, profession/job and so on -- Error 404 - Not Found Take care of the needy, the disabled, those whose hard earned income isinsufficient to meet their needs, And those whose businesses have stalled, And those who have lost their jobs. -- Error 404 - Not Found Treat kindly Your related neighbours, and unrelated neighbours, Companionsby your side in public gatherings, or public transportation. I particularly like this one: If you do not have complete knowledge about anything, better keep your mouthshut. You might think that speaking about something without full knowledge is a trivial matter. But it might have grave consequences -- Error 404 - Not Found Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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If the atheists don't getcha the Muslims will...poor old Protestants, permanently persecuted and so few of them left.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Je suis Charlie
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm. |
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Just heard that Charlie Hebdo will be published as usual next week with a production run of 1,000,000. Its usual run is 45,000. I'll buy one if I can - not that I'll understand much of it.
The Interview, which was published online after North Korea - herein after referred to as the Norks - threatened to attack Sony if it released it, has so far made $31m. Probably much more than if it had released it normally and in a much more profitable way. The best way of showing terrorists that their attacks are counterproductive is for everyone to buy the stuff that these imbeciles don't want us to sell - in our millions.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
You're right - it should be sold world wide
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Did I really just hear you say that we can't trust Muslims?
Je suis Charlie. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Ah, ok, it's just that I thought I heard you say that we can't trust Muslims and, as you know, that would be an appallingly racist and un-Christian thing to say and think and would likely lead to incredibly damaging civil unrest and the persecution of perfectly law abiding, god fearing, citizens that contribute a lot to our society and culture.
Je suis Charlie. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Ok Faith, I was only interested in establishing just how fanatically racist you are. Job done.
Je suis Charlie. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Coyote writes: "Muslim" is not a race. You are totally correct, thank you. How quickly we (I) jump to these phrases even if we (I) are actually sensitised not to do so. I need to think about what that actually means. My first thought is that the word I need - religionist - does not exist afaik. I would be grateful for help with this.Je suis Charlie. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Faith writes:
Besides being "fanatically" aware of the dangers of Islam, I'm also anti-Marxist, anti-Satan, anti-PC etc. Don't forget to put those on your list of my sins. You missed gun loving homophobic bigotry. What a fine advert for Christianity.Je suis Charlie. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
There is a worrying thing about Muslims generally - although, with very few exceptions, Muslims in the Western world condemn these murders most would also agree that making fun of their Prophet is a heinous crime and some are even saying that the cartoonists had it coming - even whilst condemning it. Blasphemy hasn't been a law in the UK for some years but Muslims appear to have some very different values. It's still very primitive.
Je suis Charlie. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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God save us from ALL religions.
We need to shrug off this superstition, prejudice and dangerous bullshit. We just can't grow up fast enough. Je suis Charlie. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm. |
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Sam Harris has long taken a fairly hard line against Islam for an otherwise liberal thinker and I tend to agree with him. He has a very long article discussing this with Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali born ex Muslim that became a member of the Netherland Parliament - a quite extraordinary woman.
Most liberals think that religion is never the true source of a person’s bad behavior. Even when jihadists explicitly state their religious motivationsthey believe that they have an obligation to kill apostates and blasphemers, and they want to get into Paradiseliberal academics, journalists, and politicians insist on looking for deeper reasons for their actions. However, when people give economic, political, or psychological reasons for doing whatever it is they do, everyone accepts those reasons at face value. If a man murders his neighbor because he wants to steal his property and doesn’t want to leave a witness, everyone accepts the killer’s account of his actions. But when he says, as every jihadist does, that he was driven by a sense of religious obligation and a yearning for Paradise, liberals insist that the search for an underlying motive must continue. So the game is rigged. If you’re always going to look beneath a person’s religious convictions for something else, of course youll never see that religion is an important driver of human behavior. He summarises the problems with traditional Islam.
Harris: It certainly should be. That’s what is so crazy about this Islamophobia charge. The people who commit the worse offensesthe honor killers, the suicide bombers, the Taliban gunman who attempted to murder Malala Yousafzaiare absolutely clear about their motives and articulate them at every opportunity. They are motivated by Islam. Yes, other religions have problematic doctrines. We can even concede that the Old Testament is the most barbaric scripture of them all. But Christians and Jews don’t tend to take the worst of its passages seriously, for reasons that can be explained both by the centuries during which these Western faiths have been weathered by science and secularism and by crucial elements of their own theology. Most important, in my view, is the fact that Christianity and Judaism do not have clear doctrines of jihad, nor do they promise, ad nauseam, that martyrs go straight to Paradise. Islam is truly unique in this respect, which helps explain the fanaticism and violence we see throughout the Muslim world. Of course, your focus has been on the plight of women and girls under Islam, many millions of whom live in conditions that are antithetical to the most basic human happiness, as you know all too well. And the rationale for their oppression is drawn directly from scripture. And why it's counter-liberal NOT to critice Islam
Harris: You’ve just exposed another painful irony here. When our critics insist on cultural or religious sensitivity, imagining that they are protecting a vulnerable population, they are really protecting thuggish men who are oppressing women, spreading hate, and stifling freedom of thought within their own communities and freedom of expression everywhere else. Anyone who likens the criticism of Islam as a doctrine to a hatred of Muslims as peopleor to anti-Semitism, racism, and other forms of bigotryhas made it more difficult for Muslims who are truly suffering to speak about their problems. It never ceases to amaze me that when one complains about Muslim theocrats abusing Muslim women and freethinkers, one inevitably gets accused of anti-Muslim bigotry. It will probably seem tendentious to many readers for me to put it this way, but our critics are just dishonest. Which reminds me of something you said at the end of one of your public lectures: Someone was challenging you and insisting that Islam is no different from every other religion, and I think you said something like If it’s the same as every other religion, why do I have to walk around with armed bodyguards? http://www.samharris.org/...lifting-the-veil-of-islamophobia Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Sort of interesting article in the New Statesman
The Myth of the Moderate Muslim Everyone seems to know that the moderate Muslim exists, but nobody seems to really agree on what he or she looks like, how he or she acts, behaves, what she believes in, how he or she practises. The Myth of the Moderate MuslimJe suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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