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Author | Topic: The Search for Moderate Islam | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
Well, it wouldn't be, would it? Explosions are typically louder than non-explosions.
The peaceful voice of Islam is not made heard. Jon writes:
So Gandhi should have yelled louder? If peaceful Muslims want their religion to stand for peace, then their voices should be loud enough to be heard over the voices of the evil Muslims. You Americans with your "fighting for peace" mindset don't seem to be able to comprehend the concept of being peaceful for peace. What you do - or don't do - often "speaks" louder than loud speech.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat's Eye writes:
Christianity doesn't support any of those things.
Does Islam teach freedom of religion? Does Islam teach to protect the civil rights of all Americans? Does Islam support domestic policies that promote civil rights, diversity and freedom of religion? Does Islam support equal and complementary rights and responsibilities for men and women?
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat's Eye writes:
I don't think so. You seem to be setting up equality, etc. as if it is some kind of standard to which Islam "should" adhere if it is to be thought of as "moderate". I'm just saying that if nobody else upholds that standard it isn't reasonable to ask it of Islam.
ringo writes:
Irrelevant and off topic. Christianity doesn't support any of those things.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat's Eye writes:
How is that different from proponents of any other religion making the same claims?
ringo writes:
No, they were claims made by proponents of Islam. I was asking if those claims were made by the religion, itself. You seem to be setting up equality, etc. as if it is some kind of standard to which Islam "should" adhere if it is to be thought of as "moderate". Cat's Eye writes:
Yes it does sound like that - and yes it is "okay" to judge all religions by the same standard. That sounds like: "Yes, there is no moderate Islam. But its okay because nobody else is moderate either." If you want to single out Islam as "not moderate" then you have to play by your own rules.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat's Eye writes:
You can't assess comparatives in a vacuum. What does "fast" mean? Faster than walking? Faster than a speeding bullet? The idea that a Corvette is "fast" only has meaning in comparison with something else in the same ballpark, like a Ferrari. But if someone started a thread wanting to talk about how Corvettes are so fast, I don't see any point to you bringing up that Ferraris are also fast. Similarly, you can't just talk about whether Islam is "moderate". Is it less moderate than Christianity? Is it more moderate than it used to be centuries ago? Is it about as moderate as corn flakes? You need some frame of reference. And the most sensible frame of reference for a religion is other religions.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
How do you define moderation in one religion except by comparison to other religions? An elephant is big in comparison to most animals but is it "big" in and of itself? We're looking for moderate Islam: a way to define it and places to find it. Edited by ringo, : pelling.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Coyote writes:
I would say that you should not react vigorously against the wrong guy.
What you are suggesting is that we should not react very vigorously to these kinds of attacks. Coyote writes:
Indeed it is. if George punches you in the nose and you react very vigorously by beating Jim half to death, Jim's friends are likely to step up to defend him.
That's a sure method for encouraging more such attacks, not fewer!
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
It would be SO nice if anybody here could learn to make necessary distinctions.Faith writes:
The problem is that you've made "necessary distinctions" when you read them - i.e. you've decided ahead of time which parts to pick and choose. A good example is your chronic inability to see the beams in your own eye.
... I said I've read them all.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
There are a lot of people outside the USA that don't think the USA represents freedoms.
... America represents freedoms they despise.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
You literally can't tell left from right, can you? There is no left in the US, only right, righter and rightest.
...but it's true that thanks to the Left we have fewer freedoms now than we were reputed by the entire world to offer up until the Left got its bloody claws into us.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Coyote writes:
I can see people to my left but very few of them are Americans. There are a lot of Canadians to my left, much of Western Europe is to my left. If you can't see anyone to your left, what does that say about your views? Can you see anybody on your right?
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