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Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: White Privilege | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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I'm sorry, liberal fingerpointing is disgusting. Your accusatory attitude is nauseating. Who said anything about ignoring anything, that's your busybody liberal mindset working overtime. I haven't said a word about my own opinion of the problems of white privilege, what I'm talking about is the Big Brother attitude, making stuff up to accuse people of. That's what you're doing. Yuck, blech. Liberals don't know how to do anything but accuse accuse accuse, pick an issue and accuse somebody of it. Put themselves in judgment over others. And no, I do not do that.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You don't know how to distinguish the one thing from the other either, and you also show the very liberal mindset I'm talking about in making up another personal fault to accuse me of. Why can't anyone here tell the difference between judging personal guilt versus ideological error or any of the other distinctions you all regularly fail to make. How tiresome, how futile.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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RAZD writes: But you are privileged. Even just walking through a store without being followed by an employee to see if you are shoplifting is privilege - you are not automatically assumed to be a priori I just picked this quote from RAZD because it seems to summarise the position of others here and for once I'm closer to Faith's feelings about it than others seem to be. I think it's wrong to equate being able to go about our business without oppression as a privilege and that it is somehow negative. Surely this is a state of civilisation that we all aspire to? The fact that there is a section of society that feels they have not achieved this state is a matter for concern and action by those that have, but it's not something that those that have achieved it should be criticised for.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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You don't know how to distinguish the one thing from the other ... I wonder who does. Besides you of course.
Why can't anyone here tell the difference between judging personal guilt versus ideological error ... * coughs *
I'm sorry, liberal fingerpointing is disgusting. Your accusatory attitude is nauseating. Who said anything about ignoring anything, that's your busybody liberal mindset [...] making stuff up to accuse people of. That's what you're doing. Yuck, blech. So, that was an impersonal analysis of an ideological error, and I am Marie of Romania. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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I think it's wrong to equate being able to go about our business without oppression as a privilege and that it is somehow negative.
The negative is that it is white privilege, where it should be human privilege.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Tangle writes: The fact that there is a section of society that feels they have not achieved this state is a matter for concern and action by those that have, but it's not something that those that have achieved it should be criticised for. You're right. But I don't think that's what's supposed to be meant by "white privilege." (I think RAZD has it wrong). I mean, not totally wrong, just missing one more step.The last step being something like what you stated: "...and they don't take any concern or action for those who don't have it (and possibly even disdain)." Sort of like irony.10 000 spoons when all you need is a knife isn't in itself ironic... it needs that extra little step of something like "...and I worked in a knife factory all day before I got home to this situation." White privilege carries that extra step of being white and in those situations... and then also not caring (or even being against) helping others gain that same "basic non-stature." Or... maybe that's just what I think it should be
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
Sure I do. As I said, "... we don't often hear black people scoffing at the idea of white privilege." Since you scoff at the idea of white privilege, that's a clue that you're white.
In other words, you haven't a clue.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Nwr writes: The negative is that it is white privilege, where it should be human privilege. It's not a privilege, it's a right - a human right that should be available to all. The whole idea of privilege is a wrong-headed anachronism. It's not wrong for any class of people to aspire to that kind of freedom and those that have should only be criticised if they pull up the ladder and discriminate against those that haven't got there. That's not a black versus white thing, that's a bigot versus and human thing. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
How's that work? Like this:
Voter discrimination You don't vote you don't get a jury summons. In a county where half the population is black the jury pools are 65% white. With the use of peremptory challenges juries often end up all white.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Tangle writes:
I think you have that backwards. There are no "natural rights". Maybe there "should" be but there aren't. There are only privileges granted by one group to another.
It's not a privilege, it's a right - a human right that should be available to all. The whole idea of privilege is a wrong-headed anachronism.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Ringo writes: I think you have that backwards. There are no "natural rights". Maybe there "should" be but there aren't. There are only privileges granted by one group to another. I didn't say anything about 'natural' - there is no such thing. There's just rights that we grant ourselves as our societies become enlightened. In our culture these are not privileges granted to a few, they apply to all. It's not a privilege to be white, it's an accident of birth and an inequality in our society that some parts of it still struggle to achieve in practice the freedoms that have actually been been granted to all.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Thanks.
I honestly didn't know about the voter discrimination stuff, but I'll admit that I'm a little underwhelmed. It kinda reminds me of a lady I heard bitching about how requiring liability insurance and annual registrations discriminated against black people owning cars.
You don't vote you don't get a jury summons. I'll take it! Edited by Cat Sci, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
But they don't apply equally to all. That's the point of this thread. Maybe they "should" but they don't. Hence, they are privileges.
There's just rights that we grant ourselves as our societies become enlightened. In our culture these are not privileges granted to a few, they apply to all. Tangle writes:
Of course it's not a privilege to be white. But it is a "reason" to receive privileged treatment.
It's not a privilege to be white, it's an accident of birth... Tangle writes:
You contradict yourself. If we are struggling to achieve those freedoms in practice then they haven't "actually" been granted at all. They have only been hypothetically granted. They are privileges, possibly on their way toward becoming actual rights.
... an inequality in our society that some parts of it still struggle to achieve in practice the freedoms that have actually been been granted to all.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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it's a right - a human right that should be available to all. I didn't say anything about 'natural' I didn't say anything about ice, I was talking about frozen water.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Ringo writes: But they don't apply equally to all. That's the point of this thread. Maybe they "should" but they don't. Hence, they are privileges. The rights apply to all, the fact that some appear to enjoy less of them is a flaw in our society, not a flaw in the rights.
Of course it's not a privilege to be white. But it is a "reason" to receive privileged treatment. Correct, it's not a privilege. Assuming the generality that you claim - which I don't - whites do not receive privileged treatment, they recieve the treatment that the rights grant them. Blacks, it is claimed, do not yet receive them in full.
You contradict yourself. If we are struggling to achieve those freedoms in practice then they haven't "actually" been granted at all. They have only been hypothetically granted. They are privileges, possibly on their way toward becoming actual rights. The rights have obviously been granted to all - that's not in debate, I hope - the laws and conventions exist. The fact that some are still fighting to achieve them in reality is a damn shame but that doesn't make those that have full access to the rights 'privileged' - unless you're using the word to mean lucky.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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