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Author | Topic: Earth science curriculum tailored to fit wavering fundamentalists | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ThinAirDesigns Member (Idle past 2404 days) Posts: 564 Joined: |
Well, this just got interesting.
I've just accepted the opportunity to question/debate Hugh Miller live (online) with my family watching. I have stated that the only topic I'm interested in debating are the famous Carnegie Samples. The time isn't set up yet (I asked for a few days to get my stuff together). Anyone else interested in watching or engaging is invited to do so. More later (and I'll have a ton of questions to ask y'all as well). Could be fun. JB
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
Looks like an example of a creationist fraud. Obtaining samples by deception and having them dated despite being warned that they were thoroughly contaminated.
Bradley Lepper's report
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ThinAirDesigns Member (Idle past 2404 days) Posts: 564 Joined: |
That's exactly what it is. But via email he's halfway convinced my family that it's not true and so they asked if I would debate him.
Certain members of the family are on the fence and leaning my way. I want to use this to lean them even farther. JB
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Admin Director Posts: 13046 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.7 |
ThinAirDesigns writes: The time isn't set up yet (I asked for a few days to get my stuff together). Anyone else interested in watching or engaging is invited to do so. Yes, but my time availability is spotty. Will this be available as a link so I can see the recap any time? Is this a text debate? Audio? Video? If audio or video, is this something you're any good at? In a technical discussion, can you choose your words at the rate you talk, or only at the rate you type? Do you make good tactical choices on the fly?
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ThinAirDesigns Member (Idle past 2404 days) Posts: 564 Joined: |
(from phone so short)
Will be a text debate on a facebook group called "SDA Fight Club Arena" (SDA being Seventh Day Adventist) The SDA Fight Club is a place where current and former SDAs, and others discuss issues relevant to the church and members past and present. It's moderated to a "attack the idea but not the person" level and has a fair bit of science exchange. It has a higher 'past member' mix than 'current members' but still a fair share of the YEC faithful. The "Arena" is a separate area where everyone can see an exchange, but only those invited to the exchange can participate - this keeps exchanges on very specific topics cleaner with less side commenting to derail things. I would LOVE people with more knowledge than I have directly involved in this exchange with Miller and would try to work out logistics to suit that. It's not like it will be of the 'hour format' or anything formal like that ... It could go on for several days as we ask him questions as they come up and he answers them in his own time (just like here). Like any FB exchange, it is preserved and can be viewed at any time.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The "Arena" is a separate area where everyone can see an exchange, but only those invited to the exchange can participate - this keeps exchanges on very specific topics cleaner with less side commenting to derail things. So it would be like our "The Great Debate" forum. If you provide a link we can run a "peanut gallery" thread to discuss and advise. And you can invite people to join our peanut gallery, and get some good cross-current trading of information. Sounds fun. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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ThinAirDesigns Member (Idle past 2404 days) Posts: 564 Joined: |
Sometime early in my time here at CvE, I read everything I could find on the Hugh Miller / Carnegie fiasco. At one point I remember actually seeing an image from the AZ lab that did the testing along with their notations as to the contamination of the sample. I can't find that report anywhere. Does anyone else remember such? Pointers?
ThanksJB
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined:
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ThinAirDesigns writes: From http://www.modernreformation.org/default.php?page=article...
I've just accepted the opportunity to question/debate Hugh Miller live (online) with my family watching. I have stated that the only topic I'm interested in debating are the famous Carnegie Samples. ModernReformation writes: One of the best ways of making a name for yourself in the scientific community is to challenge a widely held scientific understanding with a strongly defended alternative theory. It is thus of considerable significance that the tens of thousands of geologists worldwide are virtually in complete agreement that the question of the earth's age has been answered: roughly 4.6 billion years. The agreement is perhaps even more striking in the world of economic geology (oil and mineral exploration) where theories that lead to increased revenue always win, even if philosophically distasteful. Understanding the age of the earth and its layers plays a critical role in natural resource exploration, yet to our knowledge there is not a single oil or mining company anywhere in the world that uses a young-earth model to find or exploit new reserves. Old-earth models work. Young-earth models do not. So, ask Hugh Miller to open up a mine using his young earth principles and using his hundreds of millions of dollars. I bet he's not going to do that, but he's just going to go on using other people's tithes to speak untruths about what is found in reality. He'll always go on about his unreality; no matter the reality of life. Hey Hugh, put your money where your mouth is! Do exploration according to a YEC and spend billions on opening a mine according to YEC! Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
seeing an image from the AZ lab that did the testing along with their notations as to the contamination of the sample. I can find images of the AZ lab results with dates, but those images do not include the notations about contamination. The warnings given by the University of Arizona lab about contamination are described in some references but without any images. There may be a note about it in the link that PaulK provided. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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ThinAirDesigns Member (Idle past 2404 days) Posts: 564 Joined: |
I'm looking for information on the following position posted below related to the geographic range of certain geologic formations.
1: Is this described range true? I find many tapeat maps and the range is generally limited to North America so I assume it's not.2: Is there some broader (or twisted) definition that would allow the expansion of range (or is it just straight made up) 3: Are such formations defined broadly by common events, or by some 'fingerprint', or ... ?? Thanks:
quote:
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ThinAirDesigns Member (Idle past 2404 days) Posts: 564 Joined: |
BTW, Hugh Miller bailed on the public exchange he had initiallly offered and I described above before it even started.
Apologies for not updating the group on that earlier. JB
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5
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Wikipedia states that the Redwall Limestone is found in Northern Arizona, southeast California, New Mexico, and southern Utah. The Tapeats Sandstone is found in northern Arizona (Grand Canyon), central Arizona, southeast California, southern Nevada, and southeast Utah
So, I don't know what he is talking about.
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ThinAirDesigns Member (Idle past 2404 days) Posts: 564 Joined: |
The maps I find for the Tapeat show a far greater range than the listed range in Wikipedia, but nothing like Snelling describes. I haven't found anything other than local/regional maps for the redwall.
Edited by ThinAirDesigns, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
That map - and similar ones - seem to come from Creationist sources (and only Creationist sources), which is a bit of a red flag.. The little investigation that I have done suggests that they are probably including other formations, such as the St Peter Sandstone.
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ThinAirDesigns Member (Idle past 2404 days) Posts: 564 Joined: |
Crap -- yeah, I'm usually more aware of sources than that, but I just right clicked on one in Google images and copied the link.
Sure enough when I look at each of them in Google images, all of that variety are coming from YEC sites. Thanks -- dropped the ball on that. I did find this one entertaining for obvious reasons -- WORLDWIDE (in the US):
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