This Bathroom Law Confusion

What you describe are exactly the arguments used by the governor of NC when defending the current law making transgender people go to their birth certificate defined bathroom. So I suggest that there is likely no hidden problem that you are not grasping.

The one that does not risk her getting the shite kicked out of her in a situation where there are next to no protections whatsoever for LGBT individuals?And not that you've mentioned it but...As for the privacy issue, I thought women's bathrooms provided privacy even from other women, but perhaps my impression is naive. Do women actual see each others' naughty bits when they are in the ladies room?

No, the numbers objecting are not small. The question you are addressing is whether the objectors are the majority. The answer is that the people objecting do not appear to be in the majority. And their reasons appear to be exactly the ones that you yourself put down as being unimportant or fabricated. So why would it be important whether their views were the majority in that case?Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Not a great argument. Public bathrooms have urinals for reasons that have very little to do with privacy and more to do with getting people in and out of the bathroom quickly while keeping pee off of the seats. Nobody has urinals in their home, and it is not that unusual to go into a public men's room with only toilets and no urinals.

Where do you get that idea? Isn't the solution to the problem of pee on seats for men to put the seat up first? The solution we use at our house is to have men put the seat back down and not to kick men out of the bathroom.

I thought we were talking about something substantial until you started complaining about urinals and the toilet seat being up. Then the concerns seemed to diminish into something pretty picayune.Nothing really earth shattering about a unisex bathroom. As best as I can tell, they seem to work fine despite the fact that Kroger having them seems to have set some people off.

Having to deal with the toilet seat being down versus forcing transgender folk into the wrong bathroom? Yikes.

You are the one who brought this stuff up. I never thought it made a single bit of difference.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Sigh. Men leaving the toilet seat up is not an important issue in the subject of public toilets regardless of whether we are talking about reasons not to have unisex toilets or reasons not to allow transgender persons in the ladies room. You are the one who brought the issue up, not me.

I think many of us recognize your position on this issue. Where the departure comes is when you place the responsibility for not recognizing the actuality solely on the people bearing the brunt of the law that works against them.

An update on NC law HB2. The NBA indicated that it was unwilling to host next years All-Star game in Charlotte unless the law was changed. NC modified the law to provide a path for transgenders who have undergone surgery to have their sexual identity changed from that on the birth certificate. Essentially nobody who was opposed to the original bill considers this change to be an adequate remedy, and the NBA did decide to remove the All-Star game from Charlotte.And of course their is a gubernatorial election this year, and current Governor Pat McCrory is doubling down on HB2. Republicans are attempting to blame democrats for the loss of the All-Star game and other business that has been lost so far in response to the passing of HB2.

Do you mean make all of the bathrooms that way or are you suggesting just adding a couple of colored only bathrooms so that folks can out themselves by going there.

That's actually way more expensive that what is needed. Men are perfectly capable of properly using the facilities in a woman's room without modification, and all men's rooms already have stalls that women and anyone else can use.

They tried that in Charlotte, but the state legislature stepped in to say that you could not do that in any government building in the entire state. I think the most serious places that are impacted are public schools, universities and technical collegesHowever, the bathroom stuff is only one part of the problem. Additionally, the bill makes discrimination against transgender and gay folks legal under state law, and prevents any local government or municipality from passing their own anti-discrimination laws/ordinances. If people are really in doubt about the intent of HB2 being to hurt folks, I recommend reading the entire bill.

I think the confusion here is that nobody other than you intended to distinguish between "presenting as" and "self-identifying" and it was not clear that you were doing that. (Not saying that the miscommunication was your fault)Now that you've made the distinction even more clearly, I agree that there is an issue. Most folks likely meant "self-identifying" to cover all cases. But I wonder if there are a significant number of folks who are not making some attempt to present themselves as a gender different from their biological one, but who still want to go to a bathroom different from their biological gender. I'm guessing that to be a rare situation, but maybe someone else can provide some input.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.