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Author | Topic: Free will vs Omniscience | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You can't do that. You do not get to have your own personal language - not if you want to communicate.
I base the definition on personal experience. Phat writes:
Then stop using the word.
And for the record---NO---I do not need evidence.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Still not evidence. You can't have evidence before the fact. Criminals don't leave fingerprints until they actually do the crime. Which to me would be evidence that the atheist would get saved eventually. Jesus did (supposedly) say that you will be judged on what you DO, not on what you say - i.e. you will be judged on the evidence that actually exists.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The fictional character "Satan" represents our own free will. What "Satan" wants IS what we want. Every time we're tempted to do something that we "shouldn't", we're wanting to be independent of God.
... who in their right mind would want to be independent of God, anyway? (Apart from satan)
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I wouldn't call it a desire to "rebel". I'd call it a desire to have free will.
What this means, then..is that we humans have an inborn desire to rebel. Phat writes:
According to the Bible, God built it into us from the start - He forced it on us. So did God choose it for us by offering it as an option? What doesn't make sense about a lot of theology is that He would give us free will and then punish us for using it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
With everlasting torment? How can you learn anything if you don't get a chance to change your behaviour? That would only work if Hell was an empty threat (a lie). I tend to believe that God disciplines (teaches)rather than punishes. And as I've said (many times) before, I don't see much (any) evidence that He's teaching Christians more than anybody else.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The question isn't whether or not there "could be" some voodoo entity doing the determining. The question is whether or not YOU can determine anything worthwhile about that voodoo entity.
Depends on who is doing the determining.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Well, sure. I trust Long John Silver's one-legged agility. That's the way the character is written.
I trust his perfection. Phat writes:
So what does your own conduct and behaviour have to do with any external entity?
If in fact God (for some reason which you refer to as a voodoo entity) has a divine plan, I'm more interested in my own conduct and behavior rather than worrying if I get voodooed or not.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It's nice to know there's something God doesn't know. You guys dont get it. The Body Of Christ is composed of those who know Christ and whom he knows. The Beast is essentially the "Body" of the Antichrist. Those unknown by God. As you know, I have campaigned before to be removed from His list.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I would like to be on the list of things He doesn't know.
OR....perhaps you are referring to the naughty list, of which i would also want my name removed.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Well, that's the problem that's being discussed in this and countless other threads. Believers insist that there are rewards attached to a relationship with Him but the rewards always have strings attached. It's, "Do as I say and you'll be rewarded." Why would I want a relationship like that? If there was real free will, there would have to be an opt-out clause. I'll accept the natural consequences of my actions but you can keep the eternal damnation and the eternal reward.
Would Him knowing you and/or everything about you take away your free will?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Don't you think He reads my posts?
So tell Him that. Phat writes:
My free will says, "Let's not."
Lets just have a great communion today...in the present moment.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Diomedes writes:
Wouldn't the power to find out everything be close to omnipotence? Is there really a distinction between being able to find out anything and already knowing everything?
Technically, omniscience and omnipotence are mutually distinct.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Does that sound like Anybody you know?
Nobody likes a know-it-all if the know-it-all uses their wisdom to belittle others.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Doesn't, "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God," sound like belittling to you?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
On the contrary, I just want to be left alone to use the abilities I have as I see fit, without the threat of eternal damnation.
You want to have the same abilities as god has without having earned nor learned them..
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