The God That Paul Marketed Over Time.

Phat,responding to jar writes:Do you consider the idea that the messenger is the message appropriate?

jar writes:I consider that a meaningless assertion; just plain silly.

Rom 1:1-6 writes: Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God- 2 the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3 regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, 4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5 Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith. 6 And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ.

Phil 1:1-6 writes: To all the saints in Christ Jesus at Philippi, together with the overseers and deacons:2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.3 I thank my God every time I remember you. 4 In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. ....

Matthew 25 is Jesus (supposedly) telling you the criteria on which you will be judged.

Why would you let Paul's second-hand message(s) supersede that?

Why would you even read the Philippians' mail?

jar writes:The issue is that the God people worship is always a creation of themselves, it is a human creation.
Most folk it seems do not seem to think or understand that. They talk about the God of the Bible or the God of Scripture when in reality there is no such critter, rather there are multiple Gods of the Bible and Gods of Scripture.

1 Cor 1:22-25 writes: 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

jar writes:Just as there are many Gods of the Bible and Gods of Scripture, there are many different Christians. Each flavor creates the Christianity they desire.

ringo writes: The wisdom of the world is all you have, period. It's the wisdom of the world that's telling you everything you think you know about Christ - the same as the wisdom of the world is telling you that hydrogen burns.

BELIEF, BELIEVE, BELIEVERS
pisteuo NT:4100, "to believe," also "to be persuaded of," and hence, "to place confidence in, to trust," signifies, in this sense of the word, reliance upon, not mere credence. It is most frequent in the writings of the apostle John, especially the Gospel. He does not use the noun (see below). For the Lord's first use of the verb, see 1:50. Of the writers of the Gospels, Matthew uses the verb ten times, Mark ten, Luke nine, John ninety-nine.

jar writes:Give us an example of any wisdom that is not of the world?

jar writes:You would have to ask Paul but it does seem very much like what much of Christianity markets as opposed to what Jesus marketed. It seems simply another example of Paul the "End Times" "what's in it for me" salesman.

How can there be any wisdom that is not of the world?

ringo writes:You have a belief in belief but you don't understand what belief means.

Vines writes: BELIEF, BELIEVE, BELIEVERS
A. Verbs.
1. pisteuo NT:4100, "to believe," also "to be persuaded of," and hence, "to place confidence in, to trust," signifies, in this sense of the word, reliance upon, not mere credence. It is most frequent in the writings of the apostle John, especially the Gospel. He does not use the noun (see below). For the Lord's first use of the verb, see 1:50. Of the writers of the Gospels, Matthew uses the verb ten times, Mark ten, Luke nine, John ninety-nine. In Acts 5:14 the present participle of the verb is translated "believers. See COMMIT, INTRUST, TRUST.
2. peitho NT:3982, "to persuade," in the middle and passive voices signifies "to suffer oneself to be persuaded," e. g., Luke 16:31; Heb 13:18; it is sometimes translated "believe" in the RV, but not in Acts 17:4, RV, "were persuaded," and 27:11, "gave (more) heed"; in Acts 28:24, "believed. See AGREE, ASSURE, OBEY, PERSUADE, TRUST, YIELD.
Note: For apisteo, the negative of No. 1, and apeitheo, the negative of No. 2, see DISBELIEVE, DISOBEDIENT.
B. Noun.
pistis NT:4102, "faith," is translated "belief" in Rom 10:17; 2 Thess 2:13. Its chief significance is a conviction respecting God and His Word and the believer's relationship to Him. See ASSURANCE, FAITH, FIDELITY.
Note: In 1 Cor 9:5 the word translated "believer" (RV), is adelphe, "a sister," so 16:1; 7:15; 2:15, used, in the spiritual sense, of one connected by the tie of the Christian faith.
C. Adjective.
pistos NT:4103, (a) in the active sense means "believing, trusting"; (b) in the passive sense, "trusty, faithful, trustworthy." It is translated "believer" in 2 Cor 6:15; "them that believe" in 1 Tim 4:12, RV (KJV, "believers ");in 1 Tim 5:16, "if any woman that believeth," lit. "if any believing woman." So in 6:2, "believing masters." In 1 Peter 1:21 the RV, following the most authentic mss., gives the noun form, "are believers in God" (KJV, "do believe in God"). In John 20:27 it is translated "believing." It is best understood with significance (a), above, e. g., in Gal 3:9; Acts 16:1; 2 Cor 6:15; Titus 1:6; it has significance (b), e. g., in 1 Thess 5:24; 2 Thess 3:3 (see Notes on Thes. p. 211, and Gal. p. 126, by Hogg and Vine). See FAITHFUL, SURE.
Notes: (1) The corresponding negative verb is apisteo, 2 Tim 2:13, KJV, "believe not" RV, "are faithless," in contrast to the statement "He abideth faithful."
(2) The negative noun apistia, "unbelief," is used twice in Matthew 13:58; 17:20), three times in Mark 6:6; 9:24; 16:14, four times in Romans 3:3; 4:20; 11:20,23; elsewhere in 1 Tim 1:13 and Heb 3:12,19.
(3) The adjective apistos is translated "unbelievers" in 1 Cor 6:6, and 2 Cor 6:14; in v. 15, RV, "unbeliever" (KJV, "infidel"); so in 1 Tim 5:8; "unbelieving" in 1 Cor 7:12-15; 14:22-24; 2 Cor 4:4; Titus 1:15; Rev 21:8; "that believe not" in 1 Cor 10:27. In the Gospels it is translated "faithless" in Matt 17:17; Mark 9:19; Luke 9:41; John 20:27, but in Luke 12:46, RV, "unfaithful," KJV, "unbelievers." Once it is translated "incredible," Acts 26:8. See FAITHLESS, INCREDIBLE, UNBELIEVER.
(4) Plerophoreo, in Luke 1:1 (KJV, "are most surely believed," lit., "have had full course"), the RV renders "have been fulfilled." See FULFILL, KNOW, PERSUADE, PROOF.

phat writes:I am curious if you think that the Gospel of John itself is mumbo jumbo, as you eloquently put it.

ringo writes:I think your interpretation is mumbo jumbo. It says, "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God." Your interpretation about Jesus existing from the beginning is nonsense.

ringo writes:We're gonna trust the friggin' MESSAGE.

ringo writes:I have told you time after time after time that I believe we have a responsibility to do what we can to make the world a better place. Nobody is going to do it for us.

2 Cor 6:14-18 writes: 14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."17 "Therefore come out from them
and be separate,
says the Lord.Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you."
18 "I will be a Father to you,
and you will be my sons and daughters,
says the Lord Almighty."

ringo writes:A particular interpretation of the text will "make sense" to anybody who believes the interpretation.

2 Thess 2:9-12 writes: 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Phat writes:I will state that I believe the truth to be Jesus Christ...the eternally living truth.

jar writes:What does that even mean? You've been asked that before yet never really given an answer that was not just more word salad.