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Author Topic:   The God That Paul Marketed Over Time.
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 162 of 267 (796373)
12-29-2016 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Phat
12-28-2016 10:04 AM


Re: Works vs Grace
Phat writes:
What lie is Paul talking about?
The lie is the idea that you can demonstrate belief by saying, "Lord! Lord!" The real demonstration of belief is treating the least of His brethren as you would treat Him. The branches that do not bear fruit (e.g. love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control) will be cut off and cast into the fire.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Phat, posted 12-28-2016 10:04 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Phat, posted 12-29-2016 11:48 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 164 of 267 (796381)
12-29-2016 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Phat
12-29-2016 11:48 AM


Re: Works vs Grace
Phat writes:
...but I'm convinced that the reality of god eternally in communion with humanity is big news indeed and a worthwhile truism.
Thank God for dyslexia because I read that as "internally". It doesn't make a damn bit of difference whether God is eternal or even if He exists at all unless we internalize the concept. If your "belief" doesn't become who you are and what you do then it isn't real and there is no "communion". It's as vacuous as the Tower of Babel.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Phat, posted 12-29-2016 11:48 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 171 of 267 (796469)
12-30-2016 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by Phat
12-30-2016 9:52 AM


Re: Works vs Grace
Phat writes:
To me, it means that Jesus is the solution to my problems.
The Ark was the answer to Noah's problems. Who built the Ark?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Phat, posted 12-30-2016 9:52 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Phat, posted 01-02-2017 8:35 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 175 of 267 (796644)
01-02-2017 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by Phat
01-02-2017 8:35 AM


Re: Works vs Grace
Phat writes:
Are you suggesting that Noah had to solve all of his own problems without Gods help?
Whether or not he needed God's help is a separate question. The point is that if he didn't DO something, he would have been dead.
Of course, the story DOESN'T say that God helped Noah to build the ark or that God helped the ark to ride out the storm. As far as we know, all God did was CAUSE the problem.
Phat writes:
I would suggest that Noah could have done nothing without the help of a living God speaking to his heart,mind, and soul.
That's just something you're making up. It's the emptiest of empty beliefs.
Phat writes:
What does the scripture tell us about Pauls belief on Who runs the show---was it Paul or was it Christ?
What difference does it make who "runs" the show? The actors ARE the show.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Phat, posted 01-02-2017 8:35 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Phat, posted 01-02-2017 11:24 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 177 of 267 (796649)
01-02-2017 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by Phat
01-02-2017 11:24 AM


Re: Works vs Grace
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
The actors ARE the show.
And the messenger is the message.
Non sequitur.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Phat, posted 01-02-2017 11:24 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 207 of 267 (796846)
01-05-2017 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by Phat
01-04-2017 3:31 PM


Re: Abide In Me
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
The wisdom of the world is all you have, period.
Perhaps. I would argue, however, that if Christ were not of this world...as He says...and if He came into the world to testify to the truth, that scripture itself is not confined to worldly wisdom.
The scriptures were written down by humans, translated by humans, redacted by humans, transcribed by humans - so it doesn't matter what spaceship Christ rode in on, scripture is the wisdom of the world.
Phat writes:
As long as we stick to the Bible, we can safely say we ourselves are not making any new things up!
But you don't stick to the Bible. You conveniently ignore what you don't like and make up what isn't there.
Phat writes:
Evidence is not the only means to be convinced.
Indeed. Any kind of snake oil can convince the gullible.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
...ANY evidence-based conclusion is superior to an unevidenced belief.
Depends what standard you base superiority on.
I base superiority on relationship to reality. Evidence is reality, so evidence-based conclusions are necessarily connected to reality. Belief has no requirement to correspond to reality, which is why belief produces nonsense like creationism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Phat, posted 01-04-2017 3:31 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 234 of 267 (796994)
01-09-2017 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by Faith
01-08-2017 3:11 PM


Re: Left Right Left
Faith writes:
Jesus says nothing about how nations are to be run, He addresses individuals, and yes as individuals we are to help the poor.
He told us to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.
Faith writes:
The state is not addressed.
In a democracy, the individuals ARE the state. We, the people, ARE Caesar. So yes, in a democracy we ARE responsible for social justice as a nation, not just as individuals.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Faith, posted 01-08-2017 3:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by Faith, posted 01-09-2017 6:17 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 259 of 267 (797279)
01-16-2017 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Faith
01-09-2017 6:17 PM


Re: Left Right Left
Faith writes:
Rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's sounds to me like Jesus' distancing Himself from the things of government rather than saying anything about how government should be run.
Distancing Himself, maybe, but distancing US, no. Do you seriously advocate that Christians in a democracy should distance themselves from government?
Faith writes:
As I said Jesus did not address the state, He did not address government at all.
As I said, He addresses OUR ATTITUDE toward the state. He said that WE should acknowledge the state.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Faith, posted 01-09-2017 6:17 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 260 of 267 (797280)
01-16-2017 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Phat
01-11-2017 12:15 PM


Re: He completes the work in us
Phat writes:
What do you have against belief, apart from the unpardonable sin known as lack of evidence?
That's like asking what I have against death other than that it's fatal.
How many fatal flaws do you need?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Phat, posted 01-11-2017 12:15 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 01-19-2017 10:34 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 262 of 267 (797387)
01-19-2017 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Phat
01-19-2017 10:34 AM


Re: He completes the work in us
Phat writes:
how can you possibly equate belief with death? Your example does not compute!
I didn't "equate" belief with death.
You asked what I have against belief - apart from lack of evidence. Again, that's like asking what I have against jumping off a cliff - apart from breaking every bone in my body. Or asking what I have against serial killers - apart from them killing all of those people. Or asking what I have against losing my job - except that I'll be out on the street begging for spare change.
When there's a really, really bad consequence for something, why do I need a reason "apart" from that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 01-19-2017 10:34 AM Phat has not replied

  
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