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Author Topic:   The Totalitarian Leftist Tactics against the Right
Faith
Member
Posts: 30033
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 541 of 960 (803441)
03-30-2017 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 540 by 14174dm
03-30-2017 3:37 PM


Re: First Amendment
Yes.

Man and woman.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by 14174dm, posted 03-30-2017 3:37 PM 14174dm has not yet responded

    
Modulous
Member (Idle past 54 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 542 of 960 (803450)
03-30-2017 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 534 by Faith
03-30-2017 1:16 PM


Re: First Amendment
the point was that Christian action is none of those things, it's completely benign.

The victims and witnesses of those benign actions disagree.

The worst we do is evangelize on street corners, ring bells for donations at Christmastime and that sort of thing.

I wish. Unfortunately they also refuse people service, dehumanize them, argue they don't deserve life saving medical intervention, harass them, vandalize their property and try to exclude them from society and
deny people freedom and equality.

This is not benign. One might say it is totalitarian. Like when they force little girls to go the little boys room.

If things keep going as they've been going, it won't be confined to wedding businesses, we'll be getting punished for merely saying that homosexuality is a sin and gay marriage is wrong.

In Oregon it has been unlawful to discriminate your services based on group membership for over a decade. I haven't seen a single person even suggest you should be penalized for saying otherwise. It took us decades of yelling and demanding and so on to get the law that made discrimination in public accommodation passed. You'd think if that's what anybody wanted, we'd already have been yelling and demanding it.

until the gay marriage law.

They gay marriage law is called the 14th Amendment. So basically you are saying that there hasn't been a conflict until 1868. The actual law you running into problems with is anti-discrimination in business. I understand that it is harder to run a propaganda campaign against the 14th Amendment, it's harder to run a propaganda campaign arguing against 'anti-discrimination in business' laws. But when you try to re-cast the truth you will continue to find me correcting you. You say it isn't important, but the fact that you repeatedly do it, suggests that you do think it is important.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 534 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 1:16 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 543 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 5:50 PM Modulous has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30033
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 543 of 960 (803452)
03-30-2017 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 542 by Modulous
03-30-2017 5:11 PM


Re: First Amendment
Why do you impute those things to Christians? There are plenty of gay-hating nonChristians.

And the only vandalism I'm aware of in this connection is what the lovely LGBT community did to the property of the Kleins.

Legal gay marriage and nothing else is the only secular law that has ever conflicted with Christian teaching that I know of. That's it, no other form of "discrimination" despite your efforts to blur things.

Gay marriage is IT.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 542 by Modulous, posted 03-30-2017 5:11 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 544 by jar, posted 03-30-2017 6:07 PM Faith has responded
 Message 545 by Modulous, posted 03-30-2017 6:15 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 544 of 960 (803453)
03-30-2017 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 543 by Faith
03-30-2017 5:50 PM


Re: First Amendment
Faith writes:

Legal gay marriage and nothing else is the only secular law that has ever conflicted with Christian teaching that I know of.

That is simply a matter of either your ignorance or purposeful dishonesty. Christian teachings have been used as the excuse for discrimination and laws that prevented such discrimination have been opposed based on Christian teachings almost since Paul started marketing his new religion. The law allowing blacks to be citizens was opposed as being against God's law, the same goes for interracial marriage, being considered a Native American, Jews holding office, Roman Catholics holding office, Italians and Irish even getting jobs.

Christianity has been extremely successful at genocide, bigotry and discrimination including bigotry towards other chapters of Club Christian.

But again, where is there any evidence of the existence of any Totalitarian Leftist Tactics against the Right?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 543 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 5:50 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 547 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 6:57 PM jar has responded

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 54 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 545 of 960 (803454)
03-30-2017 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 543 by Faith
03-30-2017 5:50 PM


Re: First Amendment
Why do you impute those things to Christians?

Because people who refer to their Bible and call themselves Christian did those things.

Legal gay marriage and nothing else is the only secular law that has ever conflicted with Christian teaching that I know of.

So the anti discrimination laws that the Klein's ran afoul of during a time in a place when there was not legal gay marriage did not conflict with your understanding of Christian teaching?

Gay marriage is IT.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's be more - there was last time Christians claimed that. But regardless - the removal of unlawful prohibitions against gay marriage is not the issue that Christian service providers have run afoul of.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 543 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 5:50 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 546 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 6:49 PM Modulous has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30033
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 546 of 960 (803461)
03-30-2017 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 545 by Modulous
03-30-2017 6:15 PM


Re: First Amendment
So the anti discrimination laws that the Klein's ran afoul of during a time in a place when there was not legal gay marriage did not conflict with your understanding of Christian teaching?

No, there WAS no discrimination against them as gays. Only the request for service for a gay wedding is what was refused.

- the removal of unlawful prohibitions against gay marriage is not the issue that Christian service providers have run afoul of
Now that I am aware of the bigger historical context I see that what happened is that they were wrongly convicted of discrimination against gay people, when what they were doing was denying a service, period.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 545 by Modulous, posted 03-30-2017 6:15 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 548 by Modulous, posted 03-30-2017 7:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 30033
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 547 of 960 (803462)
03-30-2017 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 544 by jar
03-30-2017 6:07 PM


Re: First Amendment
I don't care what stupid nonbiblical ideas some Christians had, I'mnot ever talking about those false ideas. The Bible hasnothing agtainst interracial marriage and in fact supports it with the idea that we're all descended from the same set of parents and your constantlyh repeating that stupidity is just sstupid in itself.

There is no conflict between any of the other laqws you mention either. Yes if we were the Protestant country thye colonies w2ere then we would have laws limiting the political power of other religions, of course. But we are part of a nation that supports even dangerous religions, and there is no conflict with those laws as such. As I keep saying.

Just gay marriage.

And stop insulting Paul. He's worth a hundred of you. In fact one of you is way too much.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 544 by jar, posted 03-30-2017 6:07 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 549 by jar, posted 03-30-2017 8:01 PM Faith has responded

    
Modulous
Member (Idle past 54 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 548 of 960 (803463)
03-30-2017 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 546 by Faith
03-30-2017 6:49 PM


Re: First Amendment
No, there WAS no discrimination against them as gays. Only the request for service for a gay wedding is what was refused.

Yeah, selectively denying service to them is discrimination.

Now that I am aware of the bigger historical context I see that what happened is that they were wrongly convicted of discrimination against gay people, when what they were doing was denying a service, period.

Well, you get to make your argument that the conviction was wrongful, but I don't see how. Denying a service in this fashion is discriminatory, so you have a lot of work to do to convince me anything totalitarian was going on here.

Now about those bathroom bills....?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 546 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 6:49 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 549 of 960 (803464)
03-30-2017 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 547 by Faith
03-30-2017 6:57 PM


Re: First Amendment
Faith writes:

Yes if we were the Protestant country thye colonies w2ere then we would have laws limiting the political power of other religions, of course.

But that again is simply not rue Faith. The whole purpose of the First Amendment was to limit discrimination from some of the Protestant sects, specifically the crazy as bedbugs Puritans.

Pennsylvania was not a Protestant colony.

Virginia was not a Protestant colony.

Georgia was not a Protestant colony.

Maryland was not a Protestant colony.

The First Amendment was created to try to make sure that the Protestants could not pass laws limiting the power of other religions, Thank God.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 547 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 6:57 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 550 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 9:07 PM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30033
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 550 of 960 (803465)
03-30-2017 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 549 by jar
03-30-2017 8:01 PM


Re: First Amendment
All the states you list were basically Protestant except Maryland.

The First Amendment was to protect all denominations from each other, contrary to your anti-Protestant/ anti-Christian bias.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 549 by jar, posted 03-30-2017 8:01 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 551 by jar, posted 03-30-2017 9:27 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


(1)
Message 551 of 960 (803466)
03-30-2017 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 550 by Faith
03-30-2017 9:07 PM


Re: First Amendment
Faith writes:

All the states you list were basically Protestant except Maryland.

The First Amendment was to protect all denominations from each other, contrary to your anti-Protestant/ anti-Christian bias.

Actually no Faith. Virginia was a secular commercial venture, the Virginia Company.

Maryland was a Roman Catholic refuge.

Pennsylvania was a Quaker colony.

Georgia was a prison colony.

Yet yes, the goal of the First Amendment was to protect all religions including Jews and Muslims and Hindus and other Christians against discrimination by any Christian sect.

But you still have not presented any evidence that there is any "Totalitarian Leftist Tactics against the Right" or shown that I have any anti-Protestant/ anti-Christian bias. Since I happen to be a Protestant Christian the latter is a particularly silly assertion on your part.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 550 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 9:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 552 of 960 (803467)
03-30-2017 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 539 by Faith
03-30-2017 2:03 PM


Re: First Amendment
As I keep saying, there has never been a conflict between Christian practice -- not some crazy Christians acting on their own misunderstandings but CHRISTIAN PRACTICE -- until the gay marriage law.

Except that one man's misunderstanding is another man's complete Bible belief it appears. Well except in your case where you claim to be unerring and infallible at determining God's will.

Professing your belief as the only real one is not an argument. It's just preaching.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 539 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 2:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30033
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 553 of 960 (809646)
05-19-2017 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
03-04-2017 4:32 AM


the Leftist Totalitarian Tactics haven't let up
Just saw a headline at Yahoo about the White House looking into the law about impeachment. Every day there is something on that page implying some kind of error by Trump, some kind of hot water he's supposedly in. Some of it has some truth to it but overall it's hard to escape the impression that this IS a witch hunt, that the Left has dedicated itself to getting rid of him one way or another, by fake news or tweaked news or always finding the negative in the most neutral event. There is ZERO evidence of ANY kind of "Russian collusion" and even some leftists have admitted that, but they still keep it in the headlines because it makes Trump look bad. Amazing.

There's little point in even trying to prove any of this, the opinions here are completely in tune with Yahoo and other Leftist sources. Scary to think that we could have a Leftist coup, the overthrow of a legitimately elected President, against the will of half the voting population, based on absolutely nothing. Trump makes mistakes but he's never made an impeachable mistake or anything close. The question is whether his enemies can dupe the public into thinking so.

There is no more America, thanks to the Left, but nobody here will see it that way. And conservatives for the most part are too truly American to do anything as underhanded as the Left is doing even though that's probably the only way they could be stopped.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 03-04-2017 4:32 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 554 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-19-2017 11:02 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 555 by Chiroptera, posted 05-19-2017 11:22 PM Faith has responded
 Message 557 by NoNukes, posted 05-19-2017 11:40 PM Faith has responded
 Message 566 by ringo, posted 05-20-2017 11:52 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16052
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 554 of 960 (809647)
05-19-2017 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 553 by Faith
05-19-2017 10:52 PM


"Leftist Totalitarian Tactics" AKA Free Speech.
Just saw a headline at Yahoo about the White House looking into the law about impeachment. Every day there is something on that page implying some kind of error by Trump, some kind of hot water he's supposedly in. Some of it has some truth to it but overall it's hard to escape the impression that this IS a witch hunt,

Scary to think that we could have a Leftist coup, the overthrow of a legitimately elected President, against the will of half the voting population, based on absolutely nothing.

No dear, that would require actual sticks and stones.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 553 by Faith, posted 05-19-2017 10:52 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6528
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 555 of 960 (809648)
05-19-2017 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 553 by Faith
05-19-2017 10:52 PM


Re: the Leftist Totalitarian Tactics haven't let up
Scary to think that we could have a Leftist coup, the overthrow of a legitimately elected President....

Even if the results of the current investigations warranted impeachment proceedings, it seems strange to me to call it a "leftist coup". Removal of the President would require two-thirds of the Senate to vote for conviction, and even the wildest optimistic projections don't seem to give the "leftists" that big of a margin in 2018.

Plus, the conviction of Trump would make Pence the President. That's not what I would call a coup. Or if there's a deliberate plan to replace Trump with Pence, that would be a coup be the establishment conservatives, not the "leftists".

Edited by Chiroptera, : Typo.


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. Billy Bragg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 553 by Faith, posted 05-19-2017 10:52 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 556 by Faith, posted 05-19-2017 11:33 PM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
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