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Author | Topic: The Giant Pool Of Money. Implications | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
But you want the middle class to be treated preferentially, don't you? You don't want to be relegated to the dirty working class, do you?
I might only add fairly but not preferentially.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why? My beef is that the middle class should receive the same benefits the working class does. Should healthy people get the same benefits as sick people?
Phat writes:
There will always be a bottom. What's wrong with making the bottom a little better?
The alternative is to get nothing while the bottom raises up to the middle.(Making a new bottom)
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New Cat's Eye writes:
You were saying that wages plus tips makes a fair income. I pointed out that all minimum wage earners don't get tips. ringo writes:
How so? Your point seems to be that minimum wage earners don't deserve to be treated fairly. Forget about tips. Don't minimum wage earners deserve a living wage?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Because the stragglers need the help.
Why ignore your healthy climbers while attending only to the stragglers? Phat writes:
Again... When have I ever suggested that anybody should have to struggle harder? I'm for making the struggle easier for the ones who are struggling most.
It seems unfair for the climbers to have to struggle harder than the rest only for the right to make life better for their families. Phat writes:
The minimum wage earner has showed up on time every day too - and often at two or three jobs.
You say Boo Hoo as if you have no sympathy for a man who showed up on time every day... Phat writes:
The minimum wage earner has no "spare" change to sock away, so yes, boo hoo for the other guy who does.
...and socked away his spare change for the dream of a retirement... Phat writes:
What the hell are you talking about? Who is this angelic being who "gave everything up"?
...but seemingly would applaud a man who gave everything up for himself in order that the poorer masses could achieve whatever you deem normal for them to achieve....health care, perhaps. Phat writes:
You didn't work twice as hard.
Let us not ignore those of us who climbed out of mediocrity and worked twice as hard to better our families....
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
You'll have to be more specific. To me it looks like Matthew 25 is about sacrifices that we should be making for our fellow man.
ringp writes:
Matthew 25. Who is this angelic being who "gave everything up"? Phat writes:
The Right Wing is already in Neverland. Perhaps the Right Wing all gets raptured off to Neverland! Edited by ringo, : Spellinging.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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New Cat's Eye writes:
How do you decide that it's "fair"? From what I've seen, employers tend to pay the least they can get away with. That has nothing to do with fairness.
... it depends on the value of the work they are providing to the employer. And that is fair.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Bullshit.
There are a few of the working class who have pulled themselves up---by sheer effort---to become middle class. Phat writes:
You contradict yourself. You just said that your father pulled himself up on his own.
I am not a champion of pulling the bottom up to the middle if it means the middle has to keep their position all on their own with fewer resources (wage increases) that are being diverted to the bottom. Phat writes:
What a horrible thing to say. You don't want to help the hungriest? You should be ashamed of yourself, as a citizen never mind as a "Christian".
All I am saying is not to ignore helping them simply to help the hungriest of the working class.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Looks like you're more of a Marxist than I am. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm not in favour of corporate taxes at all. They should be used only in a carrot-and-stick approach - e.g. to incentivize environmental friendliness. They should not be used as a major source of revenue. We need stronger unions! We need to force these corporations to share more of the wealth! I believe that the working class and middle class should pay the bulk of the taxes - and they should be paid so that they can afford to do so.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New Cat's Eye writes:
Obviously not. Some people have parents to put them through college; others have to take care of their sick parents while taking whatever work they can get. That's only one example.
Everyone has the same opportunity to make their own way.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New Cat's Eye writes:
And it isn't fair....
Uh, that's them making their own way...
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Of course it isn't fair. Nobody said life was fair but at least try to understand what fairness means.
are you saying it isn't fair that my parents could have sent me to college while yours couldn't? Phat writes:
See above.
You may also know that I take care of my 94-year-old Mom with Alzheimer's at partially my own expense. Is that fair?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It isn't who benefits from corporate profits that matters. It's who benefits from taxes. The 90+% use the roads most, have the most children in schools, etc. Why should they be beholden to a bunch of rich bastards for those things? Why not give them the dignity of paying their own way?
If the wealthy own or control 90+% of everything and benefit the most from corporate profits, why not hold their feet to the fire also? Phat writes:
Your insistence on being above the working class pisses me off.
The alternative is to tax the middle class at higher rates so that they essentially have little more than the working class. Phat writes:
No, I don't. The working class is more overburdened than the middle class.
Yes, some of us had it easier than others, but by excluding the responsibility of the rich to contribute you are forcing the middle class to become overburdened. Don't you see that?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How do you distinguish yourself from the working class?
So you would have it that there were only two classes? Rich and working?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
xongsmith writes:
But they're not. How he could come to that conclusion, when the 0.01% are EXACTLY the ones benefiting. You should have read the whole post: It's who benefits from the taxes that matters. Who drives on the roads? Or rides buses on the roads or bicyles on the roads or walks on the roads? Who sends their children to the schools? Who uses the libraries? Who uses the sewers? Edited by ringo, : Removed superfluous words and words.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New Cat's Eye writes:
But minimum wages aren't just for "menial" jobs. They're for wherever the employer can get away with exploiting his workers. And they bring all wages down.
Life isn't fair, but offering minimum wage for a menial job is.
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