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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Tension of Faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Atoms make the most sense to me. They are what makes up things that are seen and yet they themselves are unseen.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Percy,to GDR writes: I wasn't comparing your beliefs to my beliefs. I was making an observation on what it looks like from the outside when someone says their beliefs are evolving over time. Let me state this in the most favorable way possible to your perspective by not describing your views as changing but as undergoing a process of refinement. You once viewed some theological aspect one way, now you view it in a more nuanced way, and you think the view you hold today a closer approximation to the truth than your former view. But that view may change again, and then you'll think that new view an even closer approximation to truth.(...) I'm fine with claims of knowing things subjectively to be true for oneself, but that doesn't make them true for other people, nor does it make them true in any objective sense. But most critically, even the claim of knowing something subjectively to be true breaks down because opinions of what is true change, just as you described. Since all the different beliefs you've held over time can't all be true, likely none of them are true. My beliefs are evolving. It is honest to admit that none of them have been likely to be true in the objective sense. I used to always claim that one needs to stand for something or they will fall for anything. Which brings us to a working definition for truth. Of late, I am leaning towards the belief that honesty is truth. To thine own self be true. Thus to say that "I dont know" is far better than claiming to know based on what one has read. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
GDR writes: Let's get back to your signature.
Christianity in many ways is not just about belief but is about a culture. It isn’t about who is a true Christian but about what culture we identify with. I have lots of friends who say they are Christian but don’t really know anything about the faith and never attend church except for weddings etc. They simply grew up in a Christian culture and identify with that group.(...)There likely is one right and true path for everyone but we aren’t all in agreement about which path that is.quote: For some of us, doing justice, being honest, and loving kindness are all we can honestly do. We have no idea what it means to walk humbly with God. My question is this: Is it important to at least being open about one's willingness to do so..without any concept of Who it is they would even be walking with?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I disagree. Not all truth is verifiable...as least initially. Sometimes you gotta choose a road without knowing the final destination. It would be great if we always had good road signs, but they sometimes are lacking.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Let's explore this idea of cultural Christianity, shall we?
Of course, I googled several definitions.
They basically say that "Cultural Christianity is a religion that superficially identifies itself as Christianity but does not truly adhere to the faith. A cultural Christian is a nominal believerhe wears the label Christian, but the label has more to do with his family background and upbringing than any personal conviction that Jesus is Lord. ". We cant accuse jar of being a nominal believer if he routinely goes and does for the least of these. (Grocery Carts, eye level with children, helping the neighbor, and attempting to rescue the poor Biblical Christians from willful ignorance certainly counts as something! I do not know what jar does on a daily basis, but I can see him helping a lot of people in small yet meaningful ways. I do think that both jar and Ringo are too casual in minimizing the resurrection of Jesus and do not claim Jesus to be Lord. The counter-argument is that God is unconcerned with such superficial toadying and this is why jar claims that atheists, Wiccans, other beliefs, and common street folk will make it into heaven ahead of Biblical Christians..(the proverbial goats. ) I was always taught the importance of belief in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus as the necessary step towards being a true Christian and not simply one in name only. To his credit, jar seems to bear fruit in his life, much of which we cannot see. (John 15:1-8) I cant say that I am any more of a Christian than jar is, though he often annoys me by equating other beliefs as just as important as the Christian ones (and Creedal ones) which he has learned. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Jesus' lessons and teachings go beyond mere beliefs and are about how to be a Christian and simply claiming Jesus as Lord means next to nothing.But the thing that seems to cause you and some others the greatest angst may be my pointing out that beliefs do not have to be based on reality to be of value. You are likely correct. I feel that you often disrespect the teaching...the belief...perhaps the origin and validity of Christianity, but I cannot claim that you do not advocate doing what the lessons and teacher (Jesus) say to do. I used to always label you as the Apostle to the Atheists, and I still sometimes think that you cater to their collective attempt to separate the belief from the reality. I would think that a Christian would or at least should attempt to fight for the validity and history of the belief itself yet you suggest that the lesson that should be passed on is the teaching (to do for others) and that the truthfulness of the legend does not matter as much as the lessons taught within the story. (add by edit) GDR seems to go off on this same tangent. GDR writes: And the way I was taught, the motivation was to "be a good Christian" and believe...then do. In contrast, you seem to suggest that doing is everything and for this reason, the unbelievers who do correctly will arrive in heaven (should one exist) before the Biblical Christians hung up on doctrine and belief yet short on useful action. You seem to think that ultimately it is about the lives we live that matters. I agree with that to a point but I don't think that it is so much about what we actually do that matters but our motivation for what we do. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The only belief that matters is belief in doing the deeds. But why is it important to you to do these deeds?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Oh stop! You know darn well what the implication is. Besides, to you the whole term Lord is irrelevant.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Yet one cannot walk with an unknowable God very well.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Who made up Micahs God?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
An argument could be made, based on GDRs perspective, that one cannot believe in the Nicene Creed with a clear conscience while also believing that every aspect of God mentioned in the Bible was made up.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle writes: Yet at least you are honest enough to admit that you are an atheist. No atheist would agree that there was even a theoretical chance that Christ rose from the dead. Nope, that for you to prove.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The allusion was not directed at you specifically.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Your argument only holds weight if Christianity is based on what we do versus what we believe.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Perhaps it is that they won't believe without evidence. I am not so worried that the existence of God supersedes natural laws in certain circumstances. You, of course, would call it wishful thinking and fantasy-based.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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