Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,912 Year: 4,169/9,624 Month: 1,040/974 Week: 367/286 Day: 10/13 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Tension of Faith
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 373 of 1540 (822111)
10-19-2017 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 368 by GDR
10-18-2017 9:50 PM


Re: Evolving theology
GDR writes:
Instead of just saying that I got it wrong can you tell us how you have it right?
I did. Resurrection means rising from the dead. It doesn't have special Christian connotations that some denominations accept and others don't. You can pretend that Jesus was special but you can't pretend that the word resurrection applies only to Him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by GDR, posted 10-18-2017 9:50 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by GDR, posted 10-19-2017 2:19 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 385 of 1540 (822167)
10-20-2017 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 375 by GDR
10-19-2017 2:19 PM


Re: Evolving theology
GDR writes:
Would you say that Lazarus was resurrected?
Yes. He rose from the dead. That's what the word means. Just Google "Resurrection of Lazarus".
GDR writes:
Would you say that someone who dies on the operating table and is brought back to life is resurrected.
Yes. That's what the word means. We don't usually use it in that context; we usually use it for a miraculous event - but the resurrection of Lazarus was no more or less miraculous than the resurrection of Jesus.
GDR writes:
Do you see any differences in the Biblical account of the resurrection of Jesus and Lazarus being brought back to life?
Resurrection is resurrection.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by GDR, posted 10-19-2017 2:19 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by GDR, posted 10-30-2017 2:08 PM ringo has replied
 Message 408 by GDR, posted 10-30-2017 6:29 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 397 of 1540 (822304)
10-22-2017 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 395 by Phat
10-22-2017 9:24 AM


Re: Evolving theology
Phat writes:
... believe...then do.
You're looking at it backwards. The belief is not the cause of the deeds. The deeds are a symptom of the belief.
quote:
Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
You can be a Muslim or a Buddhist or an atheist and do His will. You can be a Christian and not do His will. The only belief that matters is belief in doing the deeds.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by Phat, posted 10-22-2017 9:24 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by Phat, posted 10-23-2017 8:57 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 400 of 1540 (822344)
10-23-2017 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 398 by Phat
10-23-2017 8:57 AM


Re: Evolving theology
Phat writes:
But why is it important to you to do these deeds?
Humans are social animals. Our consciences evolved as a mechanism to foster the survival of the species. Unfortunately, religions often try to outsource conscience to an alien overlord.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by Phat, posted 10-23-2017 8:57 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 416 of 1540 (822684)
10-31-2017 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 401 by GDR
10-30-2017 2:08 PM


Re: Evolving theology
GDR writes:
It wasn't simply rising form the dead to only continue aging and die again later.
I'm not saying that the resurrection of Jesus wasn't different from the resurrection of Lazarus. I'm saying that your quibbling about the meaning of the word is wrong. Paul may have added a different spin to Jesus' resurrection but he doesn't get to dictate what English words mean.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by GDR, posted 10-30-2017 2:08 PM GDR has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 417 of 1540 (822685)
10-31-2017 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 408 by GDR
10-30-2017 6:29 PM


Re: Resurrection
GDR writes:
I found this on the internet which explains far better than I can what is meant by resurrection in the Bible, so I thought I'd send it along as well.
I really don't care how some people interpret resurrection in the Bible. As I said, just Google "resurrection of Lazarus". You'll find that other people do use the word "resurrection" in reference to Lazarus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by GDR, posted 10-30-2017 6:29 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by GDR, posted 10-31-2017 10:09 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 424 of 1540 (822809)
11-01-2017 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 423 by GDR
11-01-2017 4:22 PM


Re: Evolving theology
quote:
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8
So nothing about Jesus at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by GDR, posted 11-01-2017 4:22 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 425 by Phat, posted 11-01-2017 4:38 PM ringo has replied
 Message 428 by GDR, posted 11-01-2017 5:19 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 426 of 1540 (822812)
11-01-2017 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 425 by Phat
11-01-2017 4:38 PM


Re: Evolving theology
Phat writes:
You know darn well what the implication is.
And you know darn well that I don't put any stock in "implications". I just go by what the Bible says.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 425 by Phat, posted 11-01-2017 4:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 432 of 1540 (822836)
11-02-2017 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 428 by GDR
11-01-2017 5:19 PM


Re: Evolving theology
GDR writes:
Jesus' life confirms that passage.
Why does it need confirmation?
GDR writes:
I'm afraid I don't get your point.
The point is right in your own signature: God doesn't require you to believe in Jesus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 428 by GDR, posted 11-01-2017 5:19 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 433 by GDR, posted 11-02-2017 11:50 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 434 of 1540 (822840)
11-02-2017 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 433 by GDR
11-02-2017 11:50 AM


Re: Evolving theology
GDR writes:
What do you mean by require. Required for what?
It's your signature. You tell me. If your own signature says that Jesus isn't required, why do you claim He is?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 433 by GDR, posted 11-02-2017 11:50 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 435 by GDR, posted 11-02-2017 12:35 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 437 of 1540 (822844)
11-02-2017 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 435 by GDR
11-02-2017 12:35 PM


Re: Evolving theology
GDR writes:
I agree that belief in Jesus isn't necessary for that, although I do believe that it sure helps. Is that your point?
My point was to point out what your signature says.
You have a habit of treating your beliefs as fact - e.g. your distinction between resurrection and resurrection. It's like pulling teeth trying to get you to admit something is just your belief.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by GDR, posted 11-02-2017 12:35 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 438 by GDR, posted 11-02-2017 1:15 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 439 of 1540 (822846)
11-02-2017 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 438 by GDR
11-02-2017 1:15 PM


Re: Evolving theology
GDR writes:
As far as the debate about the use of resurrection it is really clear in the Bible that what happened to Jesus was quite distinct from what happened to Lazarus and I think you said that you agreed with that.
You insisted that Lazarus was not resurrected. I agreed that there were differences between his resurrection and Jesus' - but a resurrection is still a resurrection.
GDR writes:
My signature is simply a quote from the Bible. It isn't me making an absolute statement.
It's you turning a minor observation on my part into a debate, the same as you did with the word resurrection. You could have just said, "Yes, you're right."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 438 by GDR, posted 11-02-2017 1:15 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 441 by GDR, posted 11-02-2017 2:03 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 463 of 1540 (822908)
11-03-2017 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 460 by Phat
11-03-2017 9:56 AM


Re: Try to understand the reality of "BELIEF"
Phat writes:
You need personal responsibility...I reluctantly embrace it.
So you think Jesus said, "Inasmuch as ye have done it reluctantly unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 460 by Phat, posted 11-03-2017 9:56 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 464 by Phat, posted 11-03-2017 1:09 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 465 of 1540 (822923)
11-03-2017 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 464 by Phat
11-03-2017 1:09 PM


Re: Try to understand the reality of "BELIEF"
Phat writes:
You think that if Jesus says "jump" I ask how high? I'm as rebellious as the next guy...
But you're not asking how high. You're saying it's more important to believe Jesus said it than to do it.
Suppose He was saying, "Duck!" Does it matter who says it? Or should you just duck before you get your head blown off?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 464 by Phat, posted 11-03-2017 1:09 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 484 of 1540 (823034)
11-05-2017 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 473 by Faith
11-04-2017 12:16 PM


Re: One More Thing For The Record
Faith writes:
I've quoted Pascal on this before....
Pascal was Catholic. When he talked about unbelievers, he was referring to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 473 by Faith, posted 11-04-2017 12:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 488 by Faith, posted 11-05-2017 5:18 PM ringo has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024