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Author | Topic: The Marketing Of Christianity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Ever hear of creationists? They're constantly trying to figure out how Goddidit.
Hopefully people at least try and believe in a bigger God than the one they can make up. Phat writes:
Is your imaginary God bigger than what science can prove?quote:
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
dwise1 writes: As I was rereading this thread, your statement jumped out...and i disagree with it. In my opinion, belief is entirely a choice. The evidence is not that important nor persuasive to me. And not that there is a conclusive amount of it. ...but either you believe or you don't -- you cannot choose to believe. Believers who remain, believers, have more of a need to believe than do former believers, who are easily swayed by evidence. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So choose to believe in Zeus.
In my opinion, belief is entirely a choice.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Why?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
If you believe that you can choose to believe, why not demonstrate that you can?
Why?
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I have no need to believe in Zeus. He has nothing useful to offer me.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Phat writes: I have no need to believe in Zeus. He has nothing useful to offer me. Can you accept that the reason you believe in Jesus and not Mohamed is because you were born into a society where Jesus was the dominant belief persona?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Yes I can accept that premise. Logically, it makes sense.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Phat writes: Yes I can accept that premise. Logically, it makes sense. And if you were born in Mumbai you would believe in Hinduism and if in Japan, Shinto or Buddism dependent on you parents. You have to accept also that had you been born in Stockholm the high probability is that you'd be an atheist. I don't think many people believe or don't believe out of choice, I think they learn belief from the societies they are born in. A small proportion then either change their beliefs or lose them depending on their personalities and culture that surrounds them. If you live in a society that is isolated from others and does not allow dissent, beliefs wiil continue; the more open and liberal the society the less those beliefs survive and propogate. All this just means that your beliefs can not be The Truth, or if it is, it's by pure chance. Personally, if I was a believer I'd find this fact very destructive. That and the problem of suffering would be a clincher.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Tangle writes: Personally, if I was a believer I'd find this fact very destructive. That and the problem of suffering would be a clincher. Those are definitely two of the biggies that ended religion's usefulness with me.(I was raised a Catholic, and was fairly devout until, well, not being devout.) They are also two of the biggies that no religiously-minded person seems to have sufficient answers for, as well (as judged by me.)
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Stile writes: Those are definitely two of the biggies that ended religion's usefulness with me. The third of course being that science has rendered the bible stories to myth and metaphor. There's reaaly nothing left bar pomp, circumstance and tradition.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You have the same need for Zeus that you have for Jehovah. Why choose one over the other? I have no need to believe in Zeus. He has nothing useful to offer me. And if you really believe that you can choose, why not demonstrate that you can?
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Does a man have the same need for his Mother as he does for a random matronly figure whom he happens to meet? You have the same need for Zeus that you have for Jehovah. Why choose one over the other? Way back when he was born, he well could have chosen the nurse as his bonding influence if he was aware of her before Mom held him. And yet Mom became Mom. Did he choose her? Could he have chosen anyone else?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Way back when he was born, he well could have chosen the nurse as his bonding influence if he was aware of her before Mom held him. And yet Mom became Mom. Did he choose her? Could he have chosen anyone else? Mom took the child home and there was no more nurse. Are you claiming that if the reverse had happened that the child would have rejected the nurse? Your example is garbage. The child did not choose mom over the nurse because of some Mom thing. Instead, the child became attached over a day or so of spending time with a mom who festooned love on the baby. Then mom then went home with the child, with the child having no say so about which car he or she was placed in. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Does a man have the same need for his Mother as he does for a random matronly figure whom he happens to meet? A child has no need for a mother at all, a child has need of food and protection and comfort and nurture. Kids adopted at birth do just fine even if their mom is not their biological mom.
Phat writes: Way back when he was born, he well could have chosen the nurse as his bonding influence if he was aware of her before Mom held him. Kids don't choose bonding, it is just another natural process.
Phat writes: And yet Mom became Mom. Did he choose her? Could he have chosen anyone else? The thing that provides food and warmth and comfort and soothing sounds becomes the object the child bonds with. Try taking away a childs teddy or blanky or binky.
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