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Author | Topic: Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I think some of the strata were deposited by waves or the rising water itself in that phase of the Flood and gravel would have been carried along that way instead of suspended. Either that or gravel CAN BE suspended in water under certain circumstances.
All the questions you are raising are incidental details after it's become clear that the Flood is the best explanation for the main facts. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What I said is based on how the strata look and what it is like to walk on the rocks is utterly totally absolutely irrelevant. They should not look so uniform if there were different causes and processes involved for different strata.
You really don't know how to assess evidence. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No they are not. There are numerous differences between marine and aeolian (terrestrial) strata. Of course there are differences, I already said so myself, but they are not differences that matter in this context. They have nothing to do with the form of the strata, which is what I am talking about. Assessing evidence involves being able to recognize the context of what is being talked about. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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edge Member (Idle past 1735 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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I think some of the strata were deposited by waves or the rising water itself in that phase of the Flood and gravel would have been carried along that way instead of suspended.
I suppose you have some evidence for such 'waves'?
Either that or gravel CAN BE suspended in water under certain circumstances.
Sure. But, essentially, you are talking about extreme velocities and saltation. Do you really think that such things would leave no evidence behind? On what surface would gravel be transported? The pre-flood surface or the surface formed by the previous 'wave'?
All the questions you are raising are incidental details after it's become clear that the Flood is the best explanation for the main facts.
That's the nature of inquiry. You create a hypothesis and then test it by looking for evidence. That necessarily involves details.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I do know that the evidence is out there in the exposed strata and I have actually gone out there and studied the actual rocks. You have to see them from a distance to see their form. Walking on them won't tell you anything about their form. You can look at a slice of carrot close up or under a microscope and know nothing about its form. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2135 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
That's the nature of inquiry. You create a hypothesis and then test it by looking for evidence. That necessarily involves details. Not with creation "science" and related apologetics. In those you start with a conclusion and cherry pick any evidence that you can stretch or manipulate to support that conclusion. Anything else you deny and ignore.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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edge Member (Idle past 1735 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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Of course there are differences, I already said so myself, but they are not differences that matter in this context.
So, it doesn't matter that an eolian deposit occurs in the middle of a global flood? I'm sorry, but that's just plain weird.
They have nothing to do with the form of the strata, which is what I am talking about. Well, maybe the 'form of the strata' is not important in contrasting environments.
Assessing evidence involves being able to recognize the context of what is being talked about.
I think that most of us are talking in the context of evidence for or against your flood. The fact that some rocks are eolian in origin would be kind of important.
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edge Member (Idle past 1735 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
Not with creation "science" and related apologetics.
Well, there is that ...
In those you start with a conclusion and cherry pick any evidence that you can stretch or manipulate to support that conclusion. Anything else you deny and ignore.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
I do know that the evidence is out there in the exposed strata and I have actually gone out there and studied the actual rocks.
You have to see them from a distance to see their form. Walking on them won't tell you anything about their form. You can look at a slice of carrot close up or under a microscope and know nothing about its form. Ok, now I see where you went wrong.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What gravel would do in the Flood is c ompletely totally utterly irrelevant to the evidence I've already given for the Flood as the explanation for the strata. This is not the kind of "detail" that illuminates the important issues. I already have the relevant evidence, all the details would get worked out later in the normal life of any paradigm.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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edge Member (Idle past 1735 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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You have to see them from a distance to see their form. Walking on them won't tell you anything about their form. You can look at a slice of carrot close up or under a microscope and know nothing about its form.
But what if the form looks the same from a distance, but different from close-up? In much of the Navajo, I don't see large-scale cross beds from a distance and yet, on close examination, they are present. Are you telling us that this is not important? And I'm still curious about your statement that the Navajo 'just ran out of sand'. What do you mean and what is your evidence for this?
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edge Member (Idle past 1735 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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What gravel would do in the Flood is c ompletely totally utterly irrelevant to the evidence I've already given for the Flood as the explanation for the strata.
Except for the fact that you cannot explain the occurrence of gravel deposits such as the Diamond Peak Conglomerate or the Fountain Formation, etc., etc. But mainstream science can explain it, and does.
This is not the kind of "detail" that illuminates the important issues. I already have the relevant evidence, all the details would get worked out later in the normal life of any paradigm.
Well, that hasn't happened so far, so your celebration of the preeminence of flood geology is not warranted. And it looks like you have a long way to go.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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I already have the relevant evidence, all the details would get worked out later in the normal life of any paradigm. And when a normal person realizes that ALL the details show they are wrong, they abandon their failed paradigm.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Cross beds are not part of the form, they are a detail related to the sediment which has nothing to do with the form. The whole point here is that I know the Coconino and the Navajo were and are not dunes because they had to be deposited in the same way as all the other strata of other sediments were because of their identical form-- meaning their straight flat form.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
And when a normal person realizes that ALL the details show they are wrong, they abandon their failed paradigm. Sure, which is what Old Earthism should do since it misreads all the details as well as the major facts related to the age of the earth. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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