Christianity and the End Times

I don’t really watch videos or listen to podcasts.I do read some blogs. This one is quite interesting. Is That in the BibleBut I do see a lot of misunderstanding of what scripture really says here and I think it is worth talking about. (The way the two nativity stories get mashed together is an obvious example since it appears so often.)But I admit I have rarely seen anything as blatant as Jaywill’s misreading of Matthew 24.

But meaning is subjective, is it not?

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But meaning is subjective, is it not?

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Yes and no. At the base level meaning is intersubjective, meaning that it is a shared subjectivity - generally agreed. Given a sufficiently clear statement anyone fluent in the language should understand it the same way.It is quite clear in this sense that Matthew 24:36-44 deals with events at the time of the Second Coming - after the Tribulation Jaywill claims that it is about a Secret Rapture before the Tribulation but that is not a viable reading. There is simply no doubt about that.There is certainly more subjectivity in interpreting the Revelation - it is unclear, and uses symbolism (likely symbolism which modern readers are liable to misunderstand). But that is why I insist that Jaywill makes a case for his interpretation more than insisting on a contrary one there.

As I already mentioned in Message 875, that's a pretty weak "prophecy". There is not the slightest indication that Eve's seed will win the battle with the snakes. It's just an ongoing enmity. If it was a prophecy of a "saviour", it would be a failed saviour. More likely it's just another lame attempt to read Jesus into the Old Testament.

you used to always emphasize the message over the messenger. Perhaps the battle is being waged this very moment and the message is that we are the soldiers.

Mistaken reply.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I know you always know way better than two thousand years of Christian theology, but nevertheless I will point out that that is regarded by ALL Christianity as the first prophecy of the Savior promised by God from Eden.

Then where does the "saviour" come in? As I have pointed out twice now to Faith, there is no winner in that battle.The snake in Genesis 3 is a literary device to expose Eve's thoughts (i.e. the primeval thoughts of all humans). The enmity between snakes and humans is a biological turf war. Reading more into it than that just convolutes your theology to the point where it becomes a joke.

No it isn't. I, for one, had never heard it.It is, after all, ridiculous. For the third time, nobody wins that battle. It's just an ongoing enmity with no "saviour" to save anybody.Reading Jesus into it is an outright fabrication - and one that makes no sense.

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I know you always know way better than two thousand years of Christian theology, but nevertheless I will point out that that is regarded by ALL Christianity as the first prophecy of the Savior promised by God from Eden.

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In the context of the Adam and Eve story it’s pretty clear that it’s just meant to explain why humans (mostly) don’t get on with snakes. You have to read quite a lot into it to assume it is anything more.

Since you never heard of it allow me to show you that Genesis 3:15 is indeed considered to be the first prophecy of the Savior. Here's a GOOGLE PAGE on the subject. Just glance through the entries and you'll see how many say what I'm saying.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Do you read my posts at all before replying? I told you, I did Google it. And AIG was the first hit on my results too. That's a nail in the coffin. I wouldn't trust those guys as far as I could throw the Garden of Eden.And I have explained why the "prophecy" makes no sense. There is no saviour in Genesis 3. The enmity goes on and on and on forever. It just doesn't fit the idea of Jesus at all.Deal with that instead of just repeating, "I do, I do, I do believe...."

The fact that there are lots of folk who buy the Cult Dogma does not change it from just being dogma and NOT what is actually written in the Bible.

I see that I'd overlooked this earlier post in which you discussed the prophecy of Genesis 3:15 Yes, AIG is at the top of the Google page I linked too, but there are plenty of others on that page to make my point.This prophecy is considered to be a pretty condensed presentation of a lot of theology in one place. It prophesies that it is the woman whose seed will war with the serpent, because He was the seed of Mary and not of Joseph, since His Father was God. And this is a sort of reversal of Eve's sin at the same time.Bruising the heel of a man isn't going to do much damage as compared to bruising the head of a snake. And by bruising his head Jesus defeated him so that he could never regain the power he won in Eden when he seduced Eve into eating the forbidden fruit. He continues to seduce and torment humanity but he's lost the war which won't be fully realized until the end of the Millennium which follows on Jesus' Second Coming.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Yes, I missed where you said that, see post immediately above.