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Author Topic:   Creation
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1068 of 1482 (841531)
10-14-2018 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1067 by creation
10-14-2018 3:35 PM


Re: Creation
Thanks for making an effort. This is more like the way we operate around here.
creation writes:
"Revelation 11:2a-3b
They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. ...And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days
Divide 1,260 days by 42 months and you will get a 30-day month. Twelve months of 30 days equals 360-days in a year. What is the meaning of this divine number in contrast with the fact that we know the time required for the earth to circle the sun is approximately 365.25 days?
Two problems with this one. First, it's not about the actual length of a physical year. Second, it's about the future, not the past.
creation writes:
Daniel 7:25
He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time
Daniel 12:7
The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time"
In both Daniel 7:25 and Daniel 12:7, the time given is described as "a time, times and half a time." This is most often interpreted as 3 and one-half years or 42 months. When the prophecy of the 70-weeks is interpreted using the 360-day prophetic year, divine guidance appears to be revealed in human events from ancient history into the 21st century. In each 42-month period foretold, the earth is to be directed by unrestrained evil. The 360-day year makes for a good relationship between the books of Daniel and Revelation.
Again, we're talking about an actual physical year, not a made-up "prophetic year".
creation writes:
Genesis Supports the 360 Days per Year
Based on the book of Genesis, the calendar at the time of Noah consisted of 12 months of 30 days. At the beginning of the flood, the water came forth on the 17th of the month. Five months later on the 17th day of the month, the book of Genesis reveals that 150 days had passed. Dividing 150 days by 5 months supports that the early calendar contained 12 months of 30 days length. Therefore, the book of Genesis supports the 360 days per year calculation. Here are the supporting Scriptures.
Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened
Genesis 8:3
The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days (150 days)the water had gone down, and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month (5 months later)the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat
So the calendar that they used was inaccurate. The Julian calendar that was in use until a few centuries ago was also inaccurate. Even the Gregorian calendar that we use today needs to be adjusted every once in a while.
The calendar is an attempt to codify the actual physical year. It has nothing to do with the actual length of a physical year.
I'm asking for evidence that the actual physical year was 360 days at any time in the past.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1067 by creation, posted 10-14-2018 3:35 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1069 by ICANT, posted 10-16-2018 1:59 AM ringo has replied
 Message 1074 by creation, posted 10-18-2018 9:04 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1070 of 1482 (841604)
10-16-2018 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1069 by ICANT
10-16-2018 1:59 AM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:
There is no evidence of a actual physical year of 360 days in the distant past. Just like there is no evidence of a actual physical year of 365.25 days in the distant past.
We have ways of measuring the length of a year. We have ways of determining how much the length of a year changes with time. If we didn't, we wouldn't be able to adjust our clocks and calendars to keep in step with the cosmos.
There could not have been a large change in the length of a year without some correspondingly large physical force to change the earth's rotational speed - and that would definitely have left evidence. No evidence of a major change is equivalent to evidence of no change.
ICANT writes:
... the Hebrew text of the Bible suggests there was a duration of indefinite existence that light existed without an interruption of darkness.
No it doesn't.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1069 by ICANT, posted 10-16-2018 1:59 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1096 by ICANT, posted 10-22-2018 2:42 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1075 of 1482 (841670)
10-18-2018 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1074 by creation
10-18-2018 9:04 AM


Re: Creation
creation writes:
You are not in a position to say the calendar God used in Gen was not accurate for that day.
Nobody said anything about a calendar that God used. We're talking about the calendar used by the people who wrote the Bible. An YOU are not in any position to claim that that calendar was accurate.
creation writes:
A prophetic year is basically a real year in the future.
But we're talking about the past.
creation writes:
It is also the way God counts time here, since it was that way and will again be that way one day.
You don't know how God counts time. You might as well make pronouncements about what the Easter Bunny thinks.
creation writes:
Hope you didn't think the 365 day year was here for long.
We have no reason to think that the length of a day was much different at any time during history or that it will change much while humans are still around.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1074 by creation, posted 10-18-2018 9:04 AM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1076 by creation, posted 10-19-2018 9:16 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1077 of 1482 (841697)
10-19-2018 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1076 by creation
10-19-2018 9:16 AM


Re: Creation
creation writes:
Both the future and the past have 360 day years
We have no reason to think that that is true. The length of the year depends on the rate of the earth's rotation. If the length of a year changed from 360 days to 365 days, there would have to have been some major force to change the rate of rotation. That force would have left evidence. It didn't. So it's reasonable to conclude that the change didn't happen.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1076 by creation, posted 10-19-2018 9:16 AM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1078 by dwise1, posted 10-19-2018 1:56 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1081 by creation, posted 10-21-2018 9:19 AM ringo has replied
 Message 1100 by ICANT, posted 10-22-2018 4:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1083 of 1482 (841760)
10-21-2018 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1081 by creation
10-21-2018 9:19 AM


Re: Creation
creation writes:
So if there was a change in rotation, what evidence would it leave? For example, could it cause plates to separated and subduct and mountain building?
The good news is that I had to learn something to answer your question.
According to one website:
quote:
Geological evidence for increasing day length can help us pin this time down more accurately. Tidal records laid down in ancient estuaries can show daily, monthly and seasonal cycles in alternating deposits of sand and silt. They indicate that 620 million years ago the day was 21 hours, says Mardling.
By the way, the days are getting longer, so there were more days in a year in the past, not less.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1081 by creation, posted 10-21-2018 9:19 AM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1090 by dwise1, posted 10-22-2018 2:13 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1109 by creation, posted 10-22-2018 11:14 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1097 of 1482 (841826)
10-22-2018 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1093 by ICANT
10-22-2018 2:17 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:
It is pigment so it don't wash off. It has to wear off.
There's no reason why a pigment can't wash off, as long as it's water-soluble or you have an appropriate wetting agent. A pigment is just "something" that reflects light of a prticular colour.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1093 by ICANT, posted 10-22-2018 2:17 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1098 of 1482 (841827)
10-22-2018 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1096 by ICANT
10-22-2018 2:42 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:
A year is a artificial name given to the duration it takes for the earth to make a complete revolution around the sun....
The length of a year can change.
The length of a day can change.
The length of duration can not change.
The only thing that can change is the length between events in duration.
That is the reason time is a concept developed by mankind to measure the duration between events in eternity.
Non sequitur. The fact that we have arbitrary names for certain slices of time does not mean that time is "just a concept". As it turns out, time is a real "thing", which is interwoven with length, width and height.
It's odd that you think red is a real thing and time is not.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1096 by ICANT, posted 10-22-2018 2:42 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1175 by Stile, posted 11-02-2018 1:31 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1102 of 1482 (841832)
10-22-2018 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1100 by ICANT
10-22-2018 4:04 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:
You do realize mankind is the ones saying how many days are in a year.
They are only trying to match reality.
creation is the one who thinks reality has changed. I'm just saying that we have no reason to think that is true. The number of days in a year has not changed significantly during human history.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1100 by ICANT, posted 10-22-2018 4:04 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1105 by ICANT, posted 10-22-2018 5:27 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1113 of 1482 (841900)
10-23-2018 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1105 by ICANT
10-22-2018 5:27 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:
What I am saying is that mankind is the one who determines the length of duration between events in existence. And we devised a pretty good system to do that.
And that has nothing to do with what I've been discussing.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1105 by ICANT, posted 10-22-2018 5:27 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1114 of 1482 (841901)
10-23-2018 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1109 by creation
10-22-2018 11:14 PM


Re: Creation
creation writes:
Too bad the founts of the deep had ebbs and flows you may confuse for tides eh?
No, fountains do not have ebbs and flows. There is no indication in the Bible of that.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1109 by creation, posted 10-22-2018 11:14 PM creation has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1140 of 1482 (842245)
10-28-2018 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1136 by creation
10-27-2018 2:18 PM


Re: Creation
creation writes:
Hey, we don't know if there were oceans or not. There were seas.
"Sea" is a generic term that also applies to oceans. There's no point in making a distinction between them.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1136 by creation, posted 10-27-2018 2:18 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1141 by creation, posted 10-29-2018 10:31 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1142 of 1482 (842312)
10-29-2018 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1141 by creation
10-29-2018 10:31 AM


Re: Creation
creation writes:
The distinction being oceans are huge. Seas can be smaller.
That's not a distinction.
creation writes:
But even if there was a big land mass surrounded by what we would call an ocean...
quote:
Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
There was one big body of water - an ocean.
creation writes:
... a lot more water was introduced to the surface of earth.
When? How? From where?
creation writes:
Even assuming, as I do, that the high mountains were caused by post flood mountain building...
That's completely unscriptural. It's a fantasy made up by creationists to try to account for the fact that there isn't nearly enough water on earth to cover the mountains.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1141 by creation, posted 10-29-2018 10:31 AM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1146 by ICANT, posted 10-29-2018 5:39 PM ringo has replied
 Message 1150 by creation, posted 10-30-2018 12:52 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1147 of 1482 (842362)
10-30-2018 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1146 by ICANT
10-29-2018 5:39 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:
I am going to remember that the next time you argue the other side with me.
I have never argued the other side with you. I corrected you when you said that all of the land was in one place. That is not what Genesis says. You can have one body of water with several bodies of land in it, which is what Genesis describes.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1146 by ICANT, posted 10-29-2018 5:39 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1151 of 1482 (842374)
10-30-2018 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1150 by creation
10-30-2018 12:52 PM


Re: Creation
creation writes:
It is not unscriptural to suggest that a lot of upheaval, continental separation along with mountains being pushed up, happened after the time of the flood actually.
If you claim it is scriptural, give book, chapter and verse.
creation writes:
There were conduits in heaven called windows of heaven. Many think that these transported water from beyond where the stars end (the firmament where stars were placed and made) to earth!
That's a fairy tale.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1150 by creation, posted 10-30-2018 12:52 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1160 by creation, posted 10-31-2018 2:00 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1155 of 1482 (842403)
10-30-2018 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1153 by ICANT
10-30-2018 7:53 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:
The water was gathered to one place which left some dry land not islands as ringo would have us to believe.
It isn't what I would have you believe; it's what the Bible says. There's nothing in Genesis to suggest that all of the land was in one place.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1153 by ICANT, posted 10-30-2018 7:53 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1157 by creation, posted 10-31-2018 1:55 PM ringo has replied
 Message 1170 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2018 1:42 AM ringo has replied

  
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