|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Climate Change Denier comes in from the cold: SCIENCE!!! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
|
Ice retreats because the atmosphere and oceans warm up.
We have records of temperatures from multiple lines of evidence covering many millions of years. What is missing is ANY evidence of any world wide flood at anytime humans existed.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
|
Dear Leader continues to lie about climate, energy and renewable energy.
Wind Turbines are way down the list of killers of birds. By orders of magnitude.
quote:• Chart: Wind Turbines Are Not Killing Fields for Birds | Statista You will find more infographics at Statista I could not find any other topic this was appropriate for and did not feel it qualified for a new topic. If there is a better thread please let me know.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
I was looking to place it in Is The World Getting Better Or Worse? where we had a subtopic about this some time back but you beat me to it, which is fine and probably more appropriate given the Deranged Orange One's latest bs. Here is just fine.
Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
frako Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Yea but there is still the issue of Windmill Cancer.
Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
frako Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
double post
Edited by frako, : No reason given.Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
And all the gasses that blow out from them. That's not good either.
Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
frako Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
The problem with renewable energy and countries like The united states, Russia, and Saudi Arabia is that your economies depend on fossil fuels. The USA especially depends on the sale of Oil worldwide because oil can only be sold in dollars, allowing you to print huge amounts of money and not get as much inflation as the money is spred worldwide. Just on that fact alone if the world stops buying oil america goes bankrupt. Dont quote me on it but from memory i think 36% of the worlds capital is invested in fossil fuels.
Based on these conditions the world will kick and scream against any meaningful change. And we would need drastic changes to save our civilisation if at this point it is even possible as methane is escaping the arctic, where there is more carbon stored then there is currently in the atmosphere. The warmer it gets the more methane escapes warming the world further, so more methane escapes... So our best choice right now is to open a bear light a cigarette and watch the world burn down. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The Right Side of the News
Message 4250: marc2000 writes: ... . I have a renewed interest in the climate change debate these days, though it should probably be taken to the official thread (started years ago by you) But unless I'm told to go there, I'm just as satisfied to keep going on that here. Well I'll be happy to take the Climate Change debate there, but here's a little tid=bit for you from facebook
That's a scientific notice published in a newspaper in 1912. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : changed photo linkby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The Right Side of the News
Message 4243: marc2000 writes: Which of course is all wrong. Scientists were aware of climate change over 100 years ago,
marc9000 writes: What was causing that?? Too many model T's? Coal burning industries. Steam locomotives and ships burning coal. When world population was about 1/7 of what it is today. I wonder why the EPA didn't get busy on this when it was formed in 1970. I guess the reaction would have been the same in 1970 as in 1910, or 1920, or 1980, or 1990. Nothing but laughter, at the thought that putting the government in charge of energy production and use could cool the planet and calm storms. The world of Greta Thunbergs is a brand new thing. BTW - See Message 563 above with newspaper article from 1912. Your argument from incredulity is a lot of hot air signifying nothing. The reaction in 1970 was not laughter, rather it was mostly self-centered indifference of people who didn't recognize the implications. A rather common trait in humans. The oil and coal industries spent millions on distracting people -- especially gullible people -- away from the "inconvenient truth"
quote: Now I understand that you'll likely laugh at my reference to Al Gore. You've been taught to do that by the oil/coal industry propaganda machine and and fake science hacks they employ, because it endangers their comfy profit program.
... The world of Greta Thunbergs is a brand new thing. The point is that there were many people before Greta, you just haven't been paying attention, and when you did, you conformed to the propaganda program of big oil/gas corporations and their million $$ campaigns of disinformation and mockery.
When that technology includes using fossil fuels, yes. Fossil fuels are directly or indirectly behind most ALL technology. Electricity powers most modern technologies. There are many ways to generate electricity without fossil fuels. AND it is becoming more and more economical to use wind and solar -- even when they compete against subsidized oil and coal(and nuclear). Look at new electrical generation plants and what is being built.
quote: Other countries can benefit from this without having to go through the messy generation of electricity with fossil fuels.
That's what the data shows, certainly when we look at the rate of change in climate we see nothing in past climate changes of that order of magnitude of changes/year (decade, century). From my link in Message 4228; Cherry-picked data does not make a trend. There was also a Year Without a Summer - Wikipedia in 1817. The issue of Climate Change is that it is a distinct long-term trend.
quote: That goes back 400,000 years and shows regular cycles of high and low CO2 levels, and then recent levels exceeding all the historic highs. It was called Global Warming initially because that was the first observed effect (again see image above in Message 563), since then we have discovered that increasing global temperatures has significant on the location and pattern of climates world-wide, and the name was modified to Climate Change. Again it was the trends in climate patterns that became more and more apparent, and we can and have modeled the change in CO2 over the past.
There seems to be a LOT of selective quoting and omissions in the promotion of climate change fear. Just this evening, David Muir of ABC news did a quick mention of how the earths oceans were warmer than they've ever been, but he didn't mention that a significant part of ocean warming comes from the ocean floor, not just the air above it. Again that doesn't address the change in ocean temps, the trend, just the sources of heat. Are you saying that the earths core is heating up and that is causing an increase in ocean temps? If so then please document this.
When it comes to Darwinism, the scientific community has pretty much always had non-atheists very thoroughly outnumbered. They might not be so lucky when it comes to climatology, and the associated meteorology and astronomy that go along with it. ... and ... you'll still be wrong. The scientific community is as convince of the validity of climate change as they are of evolution. Because both are fully supported by the preponderance of evidence and the absence, to date, of any contradictory evidence.
... The few links alone that I've already put up in Message 4228 go a long way in covering key omissions by today's climate alarmists. Curiously I've already addressed your list in Message 4239. Your "key commissions" are fake news, they don't fare well under scientific evaluation and all attempts to replicate the denial papers results failed. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
|
The Right Side of the News
Message 4244: marc2000 writes: Yup, you took the bait! I c/p'd detail of only one of those links, where the guy starts out saying he's not a scientist, and you ran with that, without checking the fact that the last link there described a book by Dr. Tim Ball, a 40 year climatologist. When will you conspiracy theory people ever learn to check your sources.
quote: Dr. Tim Ball, NOT a 40 year climatologist, who published no peer reviewed articles on the subject and who worked for big oil/coal interests. And he lies. Shocking.
Why do you think Yahoo search is not liberal? Curious. Just type "climate change hoax" into google, then type it into yahoo. Big difference in what comes up. Which doesn't mean it is not liberal. All search engines will get different results. Again you should look for science papers/documents for the facts. Anyone can publish garbage on the internet and some gullible idiot will take it as gospel because they don't have the training to spot garbage...
What those 24 papers show however, can offset a LOT of omissions from your 14,000, and most importantly, those and many other writings from non-scientists, (you know, those who can spot fraud a mile away) can address something that most of your 14,000 omit, ... They didn't. Their pseudoscience failed.
... like what proof do we have that turning all energy production and use over to the U.S. government is going to actually accomplish anything, other than starting a war. Curiously nobody I know is advocating that. Current electrical energy plants are being built by corporations, and they use renewable sources because it is more economical and return more profit as time passes -- the major cost is startup rather than ongoing like fossil fuel plants. We just had an old electrical plant here that used fossl fuels demolished because it was no longer profitable. LOLz, thanks again for the chuckle chuckles. Yes, the whole world is in a conspiracy against you, and ordinary citizens can spot fraud a mile away, but they are duped every day by advertising lying claims (why do you think it still exists). Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JonF Member (Idle past 197 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
BTW - See Message 563 above with newspaper article from 1912.
Don't see anything here. Neither the link or the first part https://scontent-bos3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/...52738969550848_o.jpg will load for me.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Don't see anything here. Neither the link ... The image is on a facebook page. you may need to be logged in to facebook to see it. Let me know.
... Neither ... or the first part https://scontent-bos3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/...52738969550848_o.jpg will load for me. picture loads for me. There is a bit more after the .jpg for the picture (see in peek mode) https://scontent-bos3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/...52738969550848_o.jpg I get an error message when I cut off the stuff after the .jpg and the picture loads fine for me when I double click that link. It comes up with a FB icon in the tab corner, so it would imply a facebook page. Thanks Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
|
Here is a copy I found and hosted that may work:
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
Well I'll be happy to take the Climate Change debate there, but here's a little tid=bit for you from facebook That's a scientific notice published in a newspaper in 1912. I'm reminded of a graph from Percy's Message 4164;
That graph covers 10,000 years, and is only a few inches wide, so it's not really possible to accurately pinpoint just what time period those lines on that chart started rocketing up, but it looks to me like early to late 1800's, right on up to today. Just about the time fossil fuels came into being. Now lets look at which years the world achieved an additional billion in population; In 1804, the world reached a population of 1 billion1927, 2 billion 1960, 3 billion 1974, 4 billion 1987, 5 billion 1999, 6 billion and 2012, 7 billion. The projection is sometime between 2024 and 2030, 8 billion. World population milestones - Wikipedia Is it reasonable to say that there's a correlation between the rise in CO2, and the increase in world population? Undoubtedly closely related to the increase in fossil fuel use as the population increased - I'll give you that. When I asked you if too many Model T's were the reason for the increased CO2 a hundred years ago, you said it was because of "Coal burning industries. Steam locomotives and ships burning coal." Again, that's fine I'll give you that. But what we have to realize is that those coal burning industries weren't luxuries - they became accepted and necessary to provide food and warmth, and primitive lifestyles, by today's standards, to a NEW UPWARD TREND in population growth. So therefore, I only see one way to reduce CO2 back to early 1800's levels, and that would be to eliminate 6 billion people from the earth. Since I don't see anyone from the scientific community or the far political left proposing that, I'd like to know what other SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN alteration to today's societies would satisfy today's climate change alarmists. As we see from the above figures, world population was about half what it is today when the U.S. EPA was formed in 1970. Since they're experts, they should have known what was going on in 1912, and that they had something to do. They didn't do it, did they? They aren't accountable, are they? My points have never been adamant disagreement with scientific findings, I'm just adamant that there's nothing humans can do about what mere human existence causes. Humans didn't create this planet, humans don't decide how long days and years are, and they can't control the weather. Only recently, since we see increasing moral decay and increasing beliefs in the scientific community that humans are little gods, have we seen political efforts to pretend humans can quickly and decisively control the general temperature and atmospheric content of the planet.
marc9000 writes: When world population was about 1/7 of what it is today. I wonder why the EPA didn't get busy on this when it was formed in 1970. I guess the reaction would have been the same in 1970 as in 1910, or 1920, or 1980, or 1990. Nothing but laughter, at the thought that putting the government in charge of energy production and use could cool the planet and calm storms. The world of Greta Thunbergs is a brand new thing. Your argument from incredulity is a lot of hot air signifying nothing. The reaction in 1970 was not laughter, rather it was mostly self-centered indifference of people who didn't recognize the implications. A rather common trait in humans. You missed the point, I didn't say or imply that the laughter was about any scientific findings, but that the laughter was "at the thought that putting the government in charge of energy production and use could cool the planet and calm storms."
Now I understand that you'll likely laugh at my reference to Al Gore. You've been taught to do that by the oil/coal industry propaganda machine and and fake science hacks they employ, because it endangers their comfy profit program. The same way you've been taught to blow through people like Tim Ball, for a similar, but a much more dangerous reason. Free market profit margins aren't nearly as threatening as massive government takeovers of human freedoms, with no accountability.
The issue of Climate Change is that it is a distinct long-term trend. And the issue of humans reversing / fixing it through big government action is also a long term issue, and since life is short, there's no accountability. Just short term rewards for both big government officials all the way down to common jealous people, who love to watch big government mandates destroy those that they're jealous of.
Curiously I've already addressed your list in Message 4239. Your "key commissions" are fake news, they don't fare well under scientific evaluation and all attempts to replicate the denial papers results failed. Maybe I missed it, but I think you missed one. Let's look at it, I'll c/p a few paragraphs from it. The Great Global Warming Hoax | 'Knowledge is Power' – better-management.org reveals invaluable information
quote: [bolded mine] Can you knock this out in a couple of sentences? I'm sure you can go to google and find thousands of frantic scientists who've condensed it very nicely for you. I'd also like some references to a scientific paper or two that PROVE that political action will reverse climate change.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024