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| Author | Topic: God the father | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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subbie Member  Posts: 3242 Joined: Member Rating: 9.6 |
"Our Father who art in heaven...." "...Father, Son and Holy Ghost...." It seems to me that one of the themes of Christianity is that God is the ultimate father figure. He is described as having perfect love, perfect mercy and perfect justice for us. He is also described as being a jealous God and ready, willing and able to condemn anyone who doesn't believe in him and keep (some of) his laws to eternal suffering. This, of course, makes no sense. I have a son. I love him unconditionally. He's 20, so my days of having any meaningful say in how he lives his life are dwindling. I have tried to raise him to be a good person. To that end, I have from time to time had to punish him in various ways for various transgressions. It makes me sad when I have to punish him, because I hate to see him unhappy. But I know that sometimes it must be done to try to make him a better person. I have tried to do this in a manner that will teach him what mistake he made and show him not to repeat that mistake. As you can imagine, these efforts have met with mixed success. On the whole, however, he has turned into an intelligent, compassionate, caring young man, one that, with all the hubris of a parent, I am proud of. I cannot imagine anything that he could do that would make me want him to spend eternity suffering. It seems that one of the biggest transgressions one can commit against a god is to deny his existence. If my son were to disown me and never want to have anything to do with me again, I would be profoundly sad. There may be nothing that would make me sadder. But I certainly wouldn't want my son to suffer for the rest of this life, much less for all of eternity, just because he disowned me. I might be very angry at him depending on his reasons for disowning me. But wish him to suffer? No. I love him too much to ever want to see him suffer for anything. His well being is more important to me than my own. So the very idea of wanting him to suffer because he offended me is ludicrous beyond words. So please, someone, explain to me how the god of the bible can be considered all-loving and still allow anyone to suffer forever, much less impose the suffering on them himself? I don't know what you call that kind of a being, but it sure isn't a father. Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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AdminPhat Administrator  Posts: 1655 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
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Jon Member  Posts: 3688 From: Minnesota, U.S.A. Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
The Problem of Evil is still the Problem of Evil, no matter what you call the deity. Jon Love your enemies!
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subbie Member Posts: 3242 Joined: Member Rating: 9.6 |
Which is irrelevant to my question. How can a loving father condemn a child to eternal suffering? Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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jar Member  Posts: 23388 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
Any father that at one time or another not wanted to throttle his offspring is just not being honest. But do you really want a discussion on the subject and how some Christians see the issue or just want to rail at fundies? Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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subbie Member Posts: 3242 Joined: Member Rating: 9.6 |
Guilty. At one time or another. But of course, that's a far cry from wanting him to suffer for eternity.
I'd love to see anyone's take. Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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jar Member Posts: 23388 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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subbie Member Posts: 3242 Joined: Member Rating: 9.6 |
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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jar Member Posts: 23388 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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subbie Member Posts: 3242 Joined: Member Rating: 9.6 |
Please, don't misunderstand me. I'm seriously not trying to goad you or pick at you. I'm just trying to understand, and it sounds to me like that's what you're saying. Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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jar Member Posts: 23388 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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subbie Member Posts: 3242 Joined: Member Rating: 9.6 |
So what do you do with the parts of the bible that say accept God or go to hell? If your position is that they were written for a different time, does that mean that they can be ignored today? If it doesn't mean that, what does it mean to you? Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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jar Member Posts: 23388 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 6.9
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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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subbie Member Posts: 3242 Joined: Member Rating: 9.6 |
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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jar Member Posts: 23388 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 6.9
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Yes, I agree that to us and to me, sending someone to suffer for an eternity is inconsistent with a father figure image, but remember, even the father figure image is but one snapshot again taken out of context. However, condemning those you hate to eternal suffering is not inconsistent with what many folk did believe at various times; even today we see folk asserting that position. Nor are religious beliefs necessarily consistent. In fact, inconsistency could be said to be a hallmark of religious beliefs. That is certainly true of what was written and included in various Bibles. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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