Arachnid, I am moving my reply to you to a moderated section of the board. I look forward to your response.
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LOL...funny reply, Schraf.
Than you kindly.
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Here's the problem as I see it: You seem to embody everything that is mainstream and hip to the current pop culture.
See, that is strange, because I have held these basic views for about 20 years.
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Sexist: You diminish the roles of males in society
I do? When did I do that?
Was it when I talked of raising women's role in society? How does lifting up women automatically lower men? Strange either/or thinking there.
If you mean I diminish the roles of men that have been overvalued compared to the undervalued roles of women, then yes, I challenge that notion.
I believe that both genders have a great deal to offer, and no, I do not believe that men and women are exactly the same. But I do think that our similarities are great and our differences small.
It is the systematic exclusion from certain activities based upon gender, and the systematic requirement to participate in certain activities based upon gender, that I oppose. There are very few jobs which require a person to have testicles, or have ovaries.
That's all feminism really is.
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and verbally crush anyone(male) who tries to rise above his lowly station.
What lowly station is that? The lowly station of heading up nearly all of the highest business, academic, and governmental institutions in our country?
Seriously, what lowly station are you talking about?
Oh, and if my argument was flawed, I wouldn't be able to verbally crush anybody.
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Society, as a whole has waged war against the male since as far back as I can remember(35 yrs) Examples: men rarely win custody battles,
You are right, and I think it is awful that this is the case. There is absolutely no reason women should be given preferential considerstion in custody; men are perfectly capable of being good single parents. However, it is also true that working mothers have had their children taken away from them because they worked outside the home, and it is also true that fathers do a great deal more abandoning of their children than mothers, and fathers fail to pay child support at an alarming rate, and only recently have either of these problems of irresponibility been addressed in any serious way by the courts.
However, if you want to talk about "war" against a gender, perhaps you might like to think a bit about the history of how women have been treated, and continue to be treated, in this country. Rape and domestic violence are real, and not rare. Men kill their wives and girlfriends at a rate that far exceeds that of women killing their husbands and boyfriends.
http://www.letswrap.com/dvinfo/stats.htm
"Family violence kills as many women every 5 years as the total number of Americans who died in the Vietnam War"
Statistics show that one in three college-age men would rape a woman if they knew they could get away with it.
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Imagine living in my world, as a woman, for a little while, and then you tell me who is at war with whom.
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in domestic disputes it's the male who goes to jail,
Um, that's because men are a GREAT deal more likely to be physically violent, and because men are generally much more likely to come back and murder their wife or girlfriend.
http://www.letswrap.com/dvinfo/myths.htm
"according to the FBI, in over 95% of all domestic abuse violence, the man is the batterer. The injuries that battered women receive are at least as serious as 90% of all violent felony crimes, yet under state laws, domestic violence is almost always a misdemeanor."
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men disproportionately out number women in our country's judicial system...blah, blah...
See above. Men, for whatever reason, tend to be more violent.
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the point is that you and people like you are working to destroy the value of men in society.
Let's see. I talk about raising women's status, and this, by definition, "destroys the value of men?"
Does this mean that the value of men is dependent upon women's status being lower, in your view?
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I'm not denying the woman's struggle for equality, but I believe it is better to rise up than to tear down men in your quest for equality.
Again, please show me where I have done this "tearing down of men". I want examples. I don't think you have them.
Most of my coworkers are men. Most of my friends are men. I have been married to a wonderful man for 10 years. I love men.
I hate what our society has done to men. Some, like you seem to, think that for women to rise up, men must go down. This is not at all the case, although if they have been raised that there must be a leader and a follower, that there must be a winner and a loser, then the road to mutual respect will be a long one.
I don't want totear down men, but I do want men, both individually and as a group, to come to terms and take responibility for their violence towards and discrimination against, women. The reason it's important for men, as a group, to do this, is because chances are, if you know a fair number of men, at least a couple of them have done some kind of physical abuse to a woman.
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Anti-Christian: I don't know if this comes from a general dislike of anything authoritarian or the crystal-toting new age philosophy that includes your male hatred above...
Contentless personal attack, and strawman.
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but you know absolutely nothing about the faith that you slander...no, really you know nothing about it...sure, I belive you've read some words in a bible or even attended sunday school for some period of time, but you are wrong to speak, as with authority, when you slander wholesome values based in Christianity or not.
I was raised a Catholic and attended 12 years of Catechism. I lived in a Catholic household. I know a thing or two about living a religious life, because I used to be a believer.
But all of that doesn't matter. One doesn't have to have been a member of a group to have valid criticisms of the practices of that group.
If you have something specific to say which counters my criticisms of the Southern Baptist edict, or evidence which challenges my divorce statistics, or anything else specific, then bring it forward.
If all you have is to declare that "I don't have the right" with no reasoning behind it, well, then it isn't much.
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Anti-semite: your not especially twisted in this department..you just cling to common doctrines espoused by all the anti-semites.
I haven't seen much in the way of antisemitism on this board, although I have seen a bit of criticism of the secular government of Israel.
Are you actually telling me that anyone who criticises the government of Israel is, by definition, an anti-semite?
Well, that would make anyone who criticizes the government of England an anti-Church of England-ite, wouldn't it?
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In and of themselves, your views mean very little (same as my views) but together they embody this MTV new age philosophy that all these "enlightened" automatons like to tout.
However, you were wrong about my views, weren't you? You had a little box of preconceptions about me that you put me in when I started to speak of women's rights, instead of finding out for yourself what I actually think.
We all do this from time to time, as it is in human nature to categorize. However, let this be a lesson that it is not always wise to do this with people.
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It is unoriginal and indefensable and requires no imagination or true convictions...you have become exactly what the maintream media wants you to be.
Oh, being a femminist requires quite a lot of conviction, considering that people like you fear people like me. Fear leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering. This is the path of the Dark Side.
(Thanks, Master Yoda)
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Now, I mean it when I say you are a smart girl(despite your ripe old age )but you should stretch out your brain and think for yourself instead of regurgitating yesterday's news.
Piss off, boy.
I think very much for myself, thank you.
I think it's pretty funny to tell a non-religious person that they don't think for themselves. I mean, depending upon how literally certain Christians take the Bible, there is little or no thinking or analysis or interpretation needed, right?
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I only tell you this because you asked me to clarify.
Things are probably clearer for you now, but they aren't for me.
I still do not have any specific examples of where I said what you say I did.
[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 02-03-2003]
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