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Author Topic:   Defining Unconditional love
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 38 of 104 (448461)
01-13-2008 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Taz
01-12-2008 11:02 AM


Re: Don't have to be good to be loved?
Hi Taz,
If you really believe what you have written in this post.
I ache for you.
(A) God is all knowing. Yes God is all knowing.
(B) God loves me unconditionally. Where did you get this mistaken idea.
(C) God knew that I was going to turn atheist at the age of 20. Yes God knew everything about you throughout eternity.
(D) According to christians, I owe my existence to god. I don't know where the christians you talked to got their information but the last time I checked I got into this world because my father talked my mother at age 16 into having unprotected sex. God did not have anything to do with it.
(E) God specifically created me so I could exist in hell for all eternity after I'm dead.
God did not specifically create you. He created Adam and Eve.
Everybody else got here by two people having sex or artifical insimination.
I think I know what unconditional love is. I will try to give you my definition.
I love God unconditionally. I expect nothing and I trully deserve nothing but hell.
I love my Church unconditionally I expect nothing in return.
I love my wife of 50 years unconditionally. There is nothing she could do that would destroy my unconditional love. She could walk out the door today and never come back , call or anything and my love would remain unconditionally hers.
Now do I love unconditionally heck no just those three things.
Everybody else is way down on the totem pole.
I have to go to church now but when I get back I will post again.
Taz I am praying for you.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Taz, posted 01-12-2008 11:02 AM Taz has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 43 of 104 (448543)
01-13-2008 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Taz
01-12-2008 11:02 AM


Re: Don't have to be good to be loved?
Hi Taz,
(B) God loves me unconditionally.
I wanted to expand on this point in your post.
As I mentioned in my earlier post I don't know where you got this mistaken idea.
God's love is conditional and has been since the first man willfully disobeyed Him. Even the first man's existence was conditional. Eat the fruit you die.
God's chosen people the children of Israel were told:
You do this and I will do that.
You don't obey I chastise.
History says when God's chosen people obeyed God blessed.
When God's chosen people disobeyed God punished.
God is a God of justice. vengeance is mine thus saith the Lord.
Don't get me wrong God is a God of love just not the kind of love people claim it to be.
We like to make God into what we want Him to be. That will never happen.
Unconditional love does exist.
As I said I have unconditional love for my God, my Church, and my wife. But the rest of the world no way. So that means I do not have unconditional love because I make exceptions.
Jesus Christ has unconditional love.
He loves everyone including the entire universe.
He left His throne in heaven and came down to earth and took a flesh body to live and be tempted as we are and to fulfill God the Fathers requirement for the sin of the first man which was passed upon all mankind to be forgiven.
Jesus who knew no sin came to die for the sins of the world including mankind.
He did not have to do that but He chose to do so.
He had a short ministry here on earth where He started His Church.
He was despised and afflicted.
He was sentenced to die on trumped up charges.
When they went to get him in the garden Peter cut off an ear from one of the men. Jesus replaced it.
While on the cross they spit upon Him mocked Him, laughed at Him and parted his clothes at the foot of the cross.
He suffered greatly on that cross that mankind could be reunited with God.
At any moment while on the cross He could have changed His mind and stepped off the cross but He did not. He loved us that much.
When His life's blood was fast flowing away He cried out "Father forgive them they know not what they do."
While Jesus was on that cross God the Father turned His back on His Son because He could not have my sin in His presence yours or anybody's.
That is unconditional love He gave Himself requiring nothing in return.
He says if you are heavy laden come to Him He will give you rest.
He says if you come to Him He will give you eternal life no strings attached.
He says He will not cast out any that come's unto Him.
He loved everybody equal and freely gave Himself for everybody.
Now His Father who gave His Son to die on that cross for the sins of the world being a God of justice says if you trust my Son you will have life eternal with Him.
He says if you do not trust His Son you will not see life but you will be cast into the lake of fire that burneth forever.
Now why would anybody think that a Father that gave His only begotten Son to die in such a manner for man making only one requirement for man to have eternal life be so loving and good when man says no way God, I don't believe you exist, Jesus is just a myth, and all the other reasons given for not receiving Jesus as personal saviour, that He would not cast that individual into the lake of fire.
God has offered you a pardon. It is free. Your sin debt has been paid. But if you reject that pardon you will burn in the lake of fire forever.
Unconditional love=Jesus loved me before I was born. He died for my sins before I was even thought of. He knew I was going to be disobedient, unthankful, unholy, sometimes a rotten scoundrel. In fact He knew every sin I would ever commit, all my faults and failures, and was still willing to pay my sin debt. Then He said all you have to do is receive eternal life. You can't do one thing to deserve it, only trust me.
Now if that is not unconditional love there is no such thing.
Folks I am going to be with Jesus when I die even though I deserve to be in hell.
Not because of anything I have ever done But because Jesus loved "ME"
All I had to do was receive the free gift God gave for me.
Jesus loves you, you, and you just as much as He loved me.
He died so no one would have to go to Hell.
If you go to Hell it is because you choose to do so.
It will not be God's fault so quit blaming God for your sins and your forefather's sin.
Step up and take responsibility for yourself.
A child of the King,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Taz, posted 01-12-2008 11:02 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Taz, posted 01-13-2008 10:55 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 46 of 104 (448551)
01-13-2008 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Taz
01-13-2008 10:55 PM


Re: Don't have to be good to be loved?
Hi Taz,
Simple. All god has to do is undo hell and voila I can't choose to go to hell anymore.
Big problem there.
Matt 25:41 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
You see Hell was not prepared for you.
It was prepared for the devil and his angels before God ever made man.
You will be an intruder there.
Since it is Satan't final resting place it must exist forever.
Now I would like for you to give me one reason why God should do away with hell.
You don't believe it exists.
You are just jerking everybody's chain and I bought it.
Have fun while you can,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Taz, posted 01-13-2008 10:55 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by pelican, posted 01-14-2008 7:16 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 57 of 104 (448679)
01-14-2008 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by nator
01-14-2008 6:26 PM


Re-Unconditional Love
Hi nator,
Right. God doesn't offer unconditional love. We have to do something for Him or get punished.
Would you please explain to me what I have to do to get God's unconditional love.
Thanks in advance.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by nator, posted 01-14-2008 6:26 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by nator, posted 01-15-2008 5:40 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 58 of 104 (448690)
01-14-2008 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by ThreeDogs
01-14-2008 9:30 AM


Re-Conditions
Hi ThreeDogs,
ThreeDogs writes:
Since we are His creatures, His property if you will,
What tells you that you are God's creature? His property?
The first man when he disobeyed God in the Garden by eating the fruit sold all mankind into slavery to the Devil. You belong to the Devil.
Unless you have been born again.
Jesus told the pharisees:
John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
ThreeDogs writes:
Christ's love is limited by conditions we must meet to meet His promises of eternal life.
Would you please state these conditions?
Enjoy,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by ThreeDogs, posted 01-14-2008 9:30 AM ThreeDogs has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by ThreeDogs, posted 01-15-2008 9:52 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 59 of 104 (448696)
01-14-2008 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by pelican
01-14-2008 7:16 AM


Re: Don't have to be good to be loved?
Hi dameeva,
dameeva writes:
If hell was prepared for the devil and his angels, who are they?
Fallen angels.
dameeva writes:
Do they know who they are?
Yes.
dameeva writes:
Do they know god's plan for them?
Yes.
dameeva writes:
I assume they are in human form,
You assume wrong. They are fallen angels not humans never have been nor never will be human.
dameeva writes:
else the discussion would be redundant.
Please explain.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by pelican, posted 01-14-2008 7:16 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by pelican, posted 01-14-2008 10:39 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 67 of 104 (448843)
01-15-2008 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by ThreeDogs
01-15-2008 9:52 AM


Re: Re-Conditions
Hi ThreeDogs,
ThreeDogs writes:
What did Jesus tell the rich young ruler?
Great question. Lets find an answer. First here is the text of what was said lets examine it.
Mark 10:17 (KJV) And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
The rich young ruler asked Jesus a question. What shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
So first thing is we are not talking about unconditional love from Jesus.
We are talking about a person wanting to do some good deed that he can go to heaven.
Jesus reminded him of the commandments. He said man I aced all those from my youth up.
Jesus beholding him loved him.
Now here is a man trying to pull the wool over the eyes of Jesus.
He has just lied to Jesus and Jesus knew it. He had not kept the commandments no one had ever done that. If it was possible Jesus would not have come and died on the cross of calvary.
Since this rich young ruler so high and mighty and righteous wanted to inherit eternal life by doing some great deed Jesus made him and offer of something he could do that he might inherit eternal life.
Now if this man had done what Jesus requested I am sure Jesus would have honored His Word and given him eternal life.
Then this man would have been the only man who had earned his way into heaven.
Jesus never made this offer to any other man that I know of, or can find record of.
In answer to this rich young rulers question, "what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?"
Jesus said go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
In John 3:1-7 another rich young ruler came to Jesus under cover of darkness. Didn't want his friends to see him talking to Jesus. But this young man did not demand what he had to do to inherit eternal, but recognized Jesus as a teacher come from God.
Jesus told him that a man could not see the kingdom of God unless he be born again.
The young man was interested and wanted to know how this was possible.
Jesus explained we had to have a water birth and a spiritual birth.
Jesus further explained in case some would say the water birth was baptism by saying that which is born of the flesh is flesh (water birth) That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Later this young ruler was with Joseph when they claimed the body of Jesus to bury it.
So could you be a little more specific and show me where Jesus said you or even this rich young ruler had to meet certain conditions to receive his unconditional love.
He did tell the rich young ruler what he had to do to earn his unconditional love.
Now if you are the real deal and you think you are better than this young man was or anyone else has ever been and you want to try to earn the unconditional love of Jesus you go right ahead and try to earn the unconditional love of Jesus.
I think it is a lot easier just to take Jesus at His Word and receive it.
Nobody has earned it yet you may be the first.
Enjoy.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by ThreeDogs, posted 01-15-2008 9:52 AM ThreeDogs has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by ThreeDogs, posted 01-15-2008 3:26 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 71 of 104 (448898)
01-15-2008 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by ThreeDogs
01-15-2008 3:26 PM


Re: Re-Conditions
Hi ThreeDogs,
ThreeDogs writes:
Be glad to ....
From Luke 18:[22] "... Then come, follow me."
I thought this was part of the requirements Jesus stated for the rich young ruler who was very religious to do some great deed to inherit eternal life.
I did not see where Jesus separated things out of the deal.
If He did could you please point that out.
Have fun,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by ThreeDogs, posted 01-15-2008 3:26 PM ThreeDogs has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 75 of 104 (448924)
01-15-2008 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by nator
01-15-2008 5:40 PM


Re: Re-Unconditional Love
Hi nator,
If God's love was unconditional, you wouldn't have to do anything to get it.
You are correct as I pointed out in Message 43
ICANT writes:
God's love is conditional and has been since the first man willfully disobeyed Him. Even the first man's existence was conditional. Eat the fruit you die.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by nator, posted 01-15-2008 5:40 PM nator has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 78 of 104 (448934)
01-15-2008 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by nator
01-15-2008 5:47 PM


Re- God's Conditional Love
Hi nator,
What is wrong with God having conditional love?
You have conditional love. Don't get me wrong I think you can have unconditional love for some people, objects, animals, programs But to have unconditional love you would have to love everyone and everything the same way without strings attached.
Since we have spared a couple of rounds I think I would have to die before you could say you loved everyone and everything unconditionally.
Right. God's love is conditional. You have to do something to
get it.
God is capable of unconditional love after you meet his requirement.
So I ask you the question I asked ThreeDogs.
What do I have to do to get God's unconditional love?
Much has been said in this thread about obtaining someone's unconditional love.
So would you care to inform me what I would have to do to receive that unconditional love of God. You know that God has conditions could you point them out to me. I really want to make sure I do things right. What I think may be wrong and you might be able to straighten me out.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by nator, posted 01-15-2008 5:47 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by nator, posted 01-15-2008 6:24 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 82 by pelican, posted 01-15-2008 11:54 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 80 of 104 (448975)
01-15-2008 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by nator
01-15-2008 6:24 PM


Re: Re- God's Conditional Love
Hi nator,
nator writes:
If you had to do something to get it, then it isn't unconditional.
I asked you to tell me what the condition was that I would have to meet to earn God's unconditional love and I get:
nator writes:
It would be like an offer for a "free" magazine subscription after you pay an initial $50. It doesn't matter how many years of free magazines you get after that, you will have always initially paid $50.
If that was the case I would have to agree with you.
But what if I told you that if you wanted this free magazine all you would have to do is believe that I would give it to you, and accept it as a free gift.
Have fun,
Remember this magazine is a free gift if you meet my conditions.
Would it be a free magazine?

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by nator, posted 01-15-2008 6:24 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by nator, posted 01-16-2008 9:51 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 84 of 104 (449083)
01-16-2008 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by nator
01-16-2008 9:51 AM


Re: Re- God's Conditional Love
Hi nator,
nator writes:
That analogy doesn't fit, since other people can see that I'm getting the free magazines.
OK lets take it a step further then.
What if I said anybody that meets this simple requirement could have the magazine free also?
Have fun,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by nator, posted 01-16-2008 9:51 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by nator, posted 01-17-2008 8:22 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 94 of 104 (449405)
01-17-2008 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by nator
01-17-2008 8:22 PM


Re: Re- God's Conditional Love
Ni nator,
If the magazine was truly free, I wouldn't have to meet any requirements to get it.
I guess you didn't pick up any free calendars at the bank this year.
Have fun,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by nator, posted 01-17-2008 8:22 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by nator, posted 01-18-2008 5:13 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 96 of 104 (449670)
01-18-2008 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by nator
01-18-2008 5:13 PM


Re: Re- God's Conditional Love
Hi nator,
nator writes:
Does the bank give away calenders to people who aren't their customers, or is it a "thank you" for doing business with them?
Anybody that wants them and asks for them.
Have fun,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by nator, posted 01-18-2008 5:13 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by nator, posted 01-18-2008 7:44 PM ICANT has not replied

  
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