Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 79 (8870 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 10-15-2018 9:03 PM
269 online now:
Tanypteryx (1 member, 268 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: paradigm of types
Post Volume:
Total: 840,319 Year: 15,142/29,783 Month: 1,086/1,502 Week: 84/492 Day: 47/37 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
1
23456
...
21NextFF
Author Topic:   Right wing conservatives are evil? Well, I have evidence that they are.
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3578
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 1 of 302 (195065)
03-28-2005 10:08 PM


http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2003-2004/billengrossed/house/htm/2003-HEBH-5006.htm

That link links to the bill itself. Very self-explanatory.

Why do I think this bill is aimed toward homosexuals? Previous legislations have prohibited such refusal to provide health care based on race, religion, and ethnic group. However, there hasn't been any legislation that prohibited discrimination based on sexual orientation. Essensially, the only group that is in danger are gays.

Right wingers are now attacking people at a new low level. It's not just marriage or adoption rights anymore. It's the right to have health care that they want to take away from other human beings.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by crashfrog, posted 03-28-2005 10:20 PM Lammy has responded
 Message 3 by jar, posted 03-28-2005 11:12 PM Lammy has not yet responded
 Message 5 by cmanteuf, posted 03-28-2005 11:35 PM Lammy has responded
 Message 7 by Buzsaw, posted 03-29-2005 12:09 AM Lammy has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 302 (195068)
03-28-2005 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lammy
03-28-2005 10:08 PM


Why do I think this bill is aimed toward homosexuals?

I think you're wrong about it being targeted towards homosexuals, although it might very well be. It appears to me to be targeted against people who want to buy birth control, which I recall was a situation that actually came up.

In either case its bullshit. You don't have a right to work as a health care provider, so I don't see that you have a right not to be canned if you refuse to provide a certain service.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Lammy, posted 03-28-2005 10:08 PM Lammy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Lammy, posted 03-28-2005 11:35 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 3 of 302 (195079)
03-28-2005 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lammy
03-28-2005 10:08 PM


True Conservatives would be pissed. I can just hear Barry Goldwater on that.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Lammy, posted 03-28-2005 10:08 PM Lammy has not yet responded

Lammy
Member
Posts: 3578
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 4 of 302 (195086)
03-28-2005 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by crashfrog
03-28-2005 10:20 PM


the frog writes:

I think you're wrong about it being targeted towards homosexuals, although it might very well be. It appears to me to be targeted against people who want to buy birth control, which I recall was a situation that actually came up.


You're kinda right, but not really. As I understand it, there are 2 more bills on their way to being voted on. One would allow insurers to deny insurance policy based on moral and ethical reasons and the other one would allow pharmacists the right to not distribute drugs based on moral and ethical reasons.

This specific bill, I think, is aimed more at allowing physicians to choose who they will treat and who they will not treat.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by crashfrog, posted 03-28-2005 10:20 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

  
cmanteuf
Member (Idle past 4685 days)
Posts: 92
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 11-08-2004


Message 5 of 302 (195088)
03-28-2005 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lammy
03-28-2005 10:08 PM


Troy writes:

However, there hasn't been any legislation that prohibited discrimination based on sexual orientation. Essensially, the only group that is in danger are gays.

No, the main target here is selling contraceptives. Alabama recently had to fire a woman who refused to sell contraceptives (morning-after pill, I think) to people at a state-run clinic and that is what this about, I think. Homosexuals, at most, are a secondary target, IMO.

Now, if you want to see a state law that is hateful to gays, how about my state of Virginia, where a company that uses third party insurance can't give coverage to anyone other than the spouse or children of the employee. And we don't recognize other state's homosexual marriages, before you ask.

This bad law doesn't just affect homosexuals. Hypothetical example of how this is bad for heterosexuals as well: if, God forbid, my father were to die tomorrow, my mother, who is fully disabled and needs upwards of 20k/year medicines, would be impossible to insure unless she got married again. And bluntly, a 50+ disabled woman doesn't have much in the way of marriage prospects.

But the state legislature was so concerned with hating on gays that they can't be bothered to think about the consequences.

Chris

This message has been edited by cmanteuf, 03-28-2005 11:37 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Lammy, posted 03-28-2005 10:08 PM Lammy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Lammy, posted 03-28-2005 11:58 PM cmanteuf has not yet responded
 Message 10 by LinearAq, posted 03-29-2005 8:45 PM cmanteuf has not yet responded

Lammy
Member
Posts: 3578
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 6 of 302 (195094)
03-28-2005 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by cmanteuf
03-28-2005 11:35 PM


Now that I think about it more, you do have a point. This legislation affects a great many more than just homosexuals. The pierced, the tattooed, the smoker, the non-religious, the non-christian, the Muslim, the sexually promiscuous, etc. are all possible victims.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by cmanteuf, posted 03-28-2005 11:35 PM cmanteuf has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Lammy, posted 03-29-2005 1:26 PM Lammy has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 302 (195098)
03-29-2005 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lammy
03-28-2005 10:08 PM


Right wing conservatives are evil? Well, I have evidence that they are.

Hi Troy. This's buzsaw, right wing conservative. Have a good day. :)


The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Lammy, posted 03-28-2005 10:08 PM Lammy has not yet responded

Lammy
Member
Posts: 3578
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 8 of 302 (195209)
03-29-2005 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Lammy
03-28-2005 11:58 PM


myself writes:

Now that I think about it more, you do have a point. This legislation affects a great many more than just homosexuals. The pierced, the tattooed, the smoker, the non-religious, the non-christian, the Muslim, the sexually promiscuous, etc. are all possible victims.

Nevermind!! Now that all the drugs are out of my system (j/k), the above statement is rediculous. Just about everything under the sun is covered by constitutional protection that curbs this bill, except for sexuality. The only things left (and I really think this bill is really aiming for) are abortion and homosexuality. I really don't think the conservatives were thinking about the pierced and the tattooed when they pushed for this bill.

Oh yeah, buzzsaw, I guess we're even, if you know what I mean.

A: Homosexuals are evil.
B: I'm... um... gay.

B: Conservatives are evil.
A: I'm a conservative.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Lammy, posted 03-28-2005 11:58 PM Lammy has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Buzsaw, posted 03-29-2005 8:17 PM Lammy has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 302 (195314)
03-29-2005 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Lammy
03-29-2005 1:26 PM


A: Homosexuals are evil.

.......Says the God of the Bible. Buzsaw didn't write the Bible.

B: Conservatives are evil.

.......Says Troy.


The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Lammy, posted 03-29-2005 1:26 PM Lammy has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by LinearAq, posted 03-29-2005 8:55 PM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 12 by joshua221, posted 03-29-2005 10:36 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 2595 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 10 of 302 (195318)
03-29-2005 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by cmanteuf
03-28-2005 11:35 PM


cmanteuf writes:

This bad law doesn't just affect homosexuals. Hypothetical example of how this is bad for heterosexuals as well: if, God forbid, my father were to die tomorrow, my mother, who is fully disabled and needs upwards of 20k/year medicines, would be impossible to insure unless she got married again. And bluntly, a 50+ disabled woman doesn't have much in the way of marriage prospects.

But the state legislature was so concerned with hating on gays that they can't be bothered to think about the consequences.


I think you are wrong there. That is "spouse and dependents" of the employee. Your mother could become your dependent. This just keeps people living together but not married from using one employee's insurance.

I think allowing gays to get married would avoid any controversy or problems with this. As it stands now, the gays can fight that insurance law and probably win. Thus they would get coverage without being legally committed to each other. This would open the door (it has in other states) for non-married heterosexual couples to get insurance coverage for both from one employer. This raises the cost for the employers and the state while providing no incentive for committed relationships.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by cmanteuf, posted 03-28-2005 11:35 PM cmanteuf has not yet responded

  
LinearAq
Member (Idle past 2595 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 11 of 302 (195319)
03-29-2005 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Buzsaw
03-29-2005 8:17 PM


Really?
buzsaw writes:

Troy writes:

A: Homosexuals are evil.

.......Says the God of the Bible. Buzsaw didn't write the Bible

Book and verse please.

Aren't all sins equal in the eyes of Christ? :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Buzsaw, posted 03-29-2005 8:17 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by crashfrog, posted 03-29-2005 11:20 PM LinearAq has not yet responded
 Message 18 by Buzsaw, posted 03-30-2005 10:49 AM LinearAq has responded

  
joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 12 of 302 (195335)
03-29-2005 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Buzsaw
03-29-2005 8:17 PM


thanks man, thanks alot
Thank you buzsaw, with your last post you inspired probably about ten people to have utter disgust for Christians, I am sure you will regret the "homosexuals are evil to God" line someday, when you realize you misinterpreted the Bible, and totally MISSED THE POINT.

As a Christian you should try to show others truth, there you showed others hate. Remember the Christ man!

People are People, no matter sexual preference, although I don't think it is a good thing to be a homosexual, its not natural, and takes away the chance to meet a life-companion meant for you. Like in Eternal Sunshine of the spotless minds.

PB edit writes:

Plot Outline: A couple (Jim Carrey and Kate Winslet) undergo a procedure to erase each other from their memories when their relationship turns sour, but it is only through the process of loss that they discover what they had to begin with.


People are not given the right to judge others on these issues. Especially ones that can affect a persons view on life, and on my beliefs, I feel sort of insulted by what you said there, and am angry. (notice my avatar? I turned pink)

Edit by Phatboy..(I had to look up that movie)

This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 03-30-2005 05:11 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Buzsaw, posted 03-29-2005 8:17 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by nator, posted 03-30-2005 8:23 AM joshua221 has responded

crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 302 (195340)
03-29-2005 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by LinearAq
03-29-2005 8:55 PM


Aren't all sins equal in the eyes of Christ?

Yes, but as the Christians tell me, this one is worse. (No, it doesn't make any froggin' sense when they say it, either.)

Lam, you remember that Christian website you showed us, once? Where the guy was all like "I know that all sins are equally bad in the eyes of Christ, and that I should love all sinners, but why do I loathe gay people so much?" (That's nearly literally what he said.) It's too bad that thread was closed, because I would have told the guy "because you're a homophobe, genius. They invented that word to describe people like you."

This message has been edited by crashfrog, 03-29-2005 11:22 PM
f-word edit to froggin PB

This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 03-30-2005 05:04 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by LinearAq, posted 03-29-2005 8:55 PM LinearAq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Silent H, posted 03-30-2005 5:11 AM crashfrog has not yet responded

Silent H
Member (Idle past 3738 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 14 of 302 (195368)
03-30-2005 5:11 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by crashfrog
03-29-2005 11:20 PM


Well it's no more ridiculous than gays and gay supporters demanding rights for SEXUAL MINORITIES, and then joining with the fundies and other bigots to bash other SEXUAL MINORITIES THEY DON'T LIKE.

Somehow sexual minority has come to mean "interracial" and "gay"... please don't rock the boat folks with things like "evidence" and "logic" regarding any other obviously disgusting and immoral and rightly criminal actions.

Everyone has bigotry about something. The one thing I give fundies credit for, they usually don't pretend they are objective and openminded about morality.

I'm still carrying a lantern looking for an actual relativist at EvC, despite proclamations to the contrary by several evo members.


holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by crashfrog, posted 03-29-2005 11:20 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Ben!, posted 03-30-2005 8:37 AM Silent H has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 89 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 15 of 302 (195396)
03-30-2005 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by joshua221
03-29-2005 10:36 PM


Re: thanks man, thanks alot
quote:
As a Christian you should try to show others truth, there you showed others hate. Remember the Christ man!

*cheers and applauds*

quote:
although I don't think it is a good thing to be a homosexual, its not natural,

Sure it is.

Does it happen in nature? Yes? Then it's natural.

quote:
and takes away the chance to meet a life-companion meant for you.

Uh, lots of gay folk have found a life companion.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by joshua221, posted 03-29-2005 10:36 PM joshua221 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by joshua221, posted 03-30-2005 11:17 AM nator has responded

  
1
23456
...
21NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2018