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Author | Topic: Iran hangs 16 year old girl: Sharia at work. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
p.s. Allah doesn't exist Try telling that to a Christian Arab
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iano Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Or try a Christian arab telling that...
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iano Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
And Muslims know Allah exists, therefore no Xian god. Unlike God, Allah is not personal. In the sense: he does not relate to individuals personally. I suggest that the only way a person could know whether God exists is if he related and interacted with them personally. Which is why I know God exists and why a person believes (not knows) Allah exists. Your comparing apples and pears.
But the fact is neither of you know anything of the sort. Fact? I can know he exists (all he has to do is exist and let me know that fact). You cannot know he doesn't - although you may have an opinion. It doesn't resolve anything much but it is worth pointing out.
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Legend Member (Idle past 5034 days) Posts: 1226 From: Wales, UK Joined: |
iano writes:
how do you know it's the Christian God that lets you know he exists and not the Devil reinforcing your misguided belief in a vengeful, petty God that corrupts the teachings of Jesus and ,therefore, ultimately harms Christianity ? Fact? I can know he exists (all he has to do is exist and let me know that fact). "In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5223 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
iano,
Unlike God, Allah is not personal. He contacted you... Mark There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4704 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
Maybe someone should follow you around and point out when you repeat the same unsupported baloney.
iano writes: I am willing to accept Biblical support for your statement. Please provide something to support your assertion that God revealing himself in an irrefutable way causes us to lose our free will. He will work to convince you that the wrong you do is actually wrong (without revealing himself to be the source of the absolutedness of morals just yet - that would interfere with you free will to reject his attempt). This is off-topic as is the rest of your statement so I will comment no further about that. On-topic: I believe the hanging would be a travesty of justice. I also see this as a result of those in power protecting their buddies or the reputation of the security force. I certainly don't see it as caused by the dictates of the Koran. These are my first impressions and only opinion so I don't really have support for them. It just seems like the same-ol' same-ol'...those in power getting away with acts that they decry and "taking care" of those who protest.
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iano Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
how do you know it's the Christian God that lets you know he exists and not the Devil reinforcing your misguided belief in a vengeful, petty God that corrupts the teachings of Jesus and ,therefore, ultimately harms Christianity ? Quite how it is you read the Bible is not known to me Legend. It seems you take out the bits that speak of Gods wrath and leave in the bits that deal with his love. Vengence is not petty. It is paying someone back for a wrong they have done to you. Or you can forgive them. Either is a possibility. Saved gets forgivness, unsaved gets vengence. Whats the problem? Is there no hell and no heaven, no sheep no goats? How many pages are left in your Bible? Edited by iano, : No reason given.
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iano Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Maybe someone should follow you around and point out when you repeat the same unsupported baloney It was supported by logical argument based on some fairly simple biblical principles. You might deal with the argument already given rather than evade by asking for another.
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Legend Member (Idle past 5034 days) Posts: 1226 From: Wales, UK Joined: |
ok, we're digressing so let me rephrase this :
How do you know that it's the Christian God who's letting you know that the Christian God exists and that it isn't the Devil / Allah / other who's letting you know that the Christian God exists, for their own ulterior purposes ? "In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
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iano Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
I don't. The person who relates to me is exactly as described in the Bible. The Bible explains the world in a way that fits perfectly with the way it is. But that could all be a figment of some other gods imagination I suppose. Its just that there is no convincing evidence that this is the case.
I have oft said that I could be wrong about Gods existance - that I could be some character in an alien kids Playstation game. I'll add your suggestion to the list of ways in which I could be wrong
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 3940 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
I have said as much in the past in these Islam topics which is that it is a pure distraction from the real issues. The hypocricy is important but it is seperate from the issue of Islam. You don't need to attack Christianity to point out the flaws in these demonizations of Islam. They are not internally consistent and I feel that by bringing the argument to Christianty you are merely leaving an important issue on the table; namely that their criticism of Islam as a whole is bogus on the face of it.
All you are doing is putting them on the defensive over something that does not remove the original issue. "So what, Christianity does it too" does not address the fact that their original assumptions are in fact wrong. Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)
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lfen Member (Idle past 4706 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
Simple analogy. One elephant and four blind men results in four conflicting discriptions.
One ultimate reality and millions of fallible human beings results in many confliciting interpretations. You are conflating your referent and what you call the referent and your concepts of it. "Allah","Jehovah","Siva", are words used to refer to something. The concepts "almighty god", or "ultimate source" are conceived differently. Muslims as millions of people have done for thousands of years address themselves to a concept of the ultimate. If differs from other major religion's concepts of the ultimate in various particulars. I suppose when you say Allah doesn't exist and your God does you are saying what you have repeatedly said here which is you are right and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Okay. We knew you believed that as you made it abundantly clear all along. The process of coming to a belief is something not well understood but is of interest to me. At this point all we have is people threatening us and everyone who doesn't join them in their religion with hell if we don't accept their version of ultimate reality. For humans terror is a real experience as is love, joy, hatred. So we could say that ultimate reality has a terrifying aspect as well as more benign aspects. The middle eastern religions tend to stop with this. The ego will be reborn in heaven where there is only one end of the stick, constant pleasure and those that don't agree with the ego go to hell, the other end of the stick. This is still a model based on relative concepts. lfen
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lfen Member (Idle past 4706 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
The Bible explains the world in a way that fits perfectly with the way it is. But that could all be a figment of some other gods imagination I suppose. Specifically, it is the construction of your imagination.
I have oft said that I could be wrong about Gods existance - that I could be some character in an alien kids Playstation game. You are mistaken in a number of particulars about existence. It would be more accurate to note that the "Playstation game" is actually your brain. lfen
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iano Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
You are mistaken in a number of particulars about existence. It would be more accurate to note that the "Playstation game" is actually your brain. And what do I have to suppose I have a brain which stands outside the playstation game?
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4704 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
LinearAq writes:
Indeed! I went back and reread your entire post yet failed to see where you supported your contention that God revealing himself to us would remove our free will. At least, I didn't see it there. Most of your post was about the use of disparate seeming coincidences by God to lead the unwitting sinner to Himself (seed-planting analogy, I believe). I also went back to one other place where I confronted you on that contention and did not see any supporting information there either. Maybe someone should follow you around and point out when you repeat the same unsupported baloneyiano writes: It was supported by logical argument based on some fairly simple biblical principles. You might deal with the argument already given rather than evade by asking for another. I am willing to concede that I may have misconstrued your statement of a previously-proven fact as an unsupported assertion. Do you remember where it was that you supplied or read the Biblical support for the idea? If not, could you write down your best recollection of the supporting information as a reply to this post?
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