|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,913 Year: 4,170/9,624 Month: 1,041/974 Week: 0/368 Day: 0/11 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
Cold Foreign Object  Suspended Member (Idle past 3078 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: What Is The Positive Evidence For Atheism? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Omnivorous Member Posts: 3992 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.5 |
Homemade pumpkin pie and fresh ground hazelnut coffee for breakfast.
Dinner today was a repeat of yesterday; tomorrow, turkey pot pie (I always make extra pastry dough when I make the pumpkin pie--after being fridged two days, it's incredibly flaky for pot pie). I'll use my left-over garlic smashed to make latkes for breakfast tomorrow. I want your salad recipe. Real things always push back. -William James Save lives! Click here!Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC! ---------------------------------------
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
nator writes: No, I (we?) fill it with "we don't know." You might as well pile on as well. I have no problem with that but when you say you don't know then presumably you are leaving open the possiblity of the supernatural.
nator writes: How can you tell the difference between natural phenomena that we haven't figured out yet, or may never figure out, and supernaturally caused phenomena? Basically there is no way. I did write in a post further up the thread about how I see science determining what things are and how they became that way but I don't see science as determining why things are the way they are. As I said genetics may explain how we experience emotion but I don't see it explaining why emotions exist. Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes: You completely discount the possibility of divine revelation. Not at all. I have examined reports of "divine revelation" and found them all to be unreliable. I welcome any reports of true divine revelation. Just don't expect me to swallow them indiscriminately.
I do believe it exists and on a very small level I believe I have experienced it. Can I prove it? No. That's just it. I can prove to you that the Eiffel Tower exists or that YouTube exists or even that love and hate exist. If you can't prove something exists and you know you can't prove it exists, why would you still believe it exists? How can something so fundamentally uncommunicable be so "real" to you? It may not be "positive evidence" but the abject inability of believers to communicate their "revelations" to unbelievers seems like a pretty good reason for atheism. “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Ringo writes: Not at all. I have examined reports of "divine revelation" and found them all to be unreliable. I welcome any reports of true divine revelation. Just don't expect me to swallow them indiscriminately. I don't. What would it take to convince you that an example of "divine revelation" was reliable? It isn't something that can be tested empirically.
Ringo writes: It may not be "positive evidence" but the abject inability of believers to communicate their "revelations" to unbelievers seems like a pretty good reason for atheism. I could tell you about my own experience but that wouldn't cut it. I can't prove it in any way shape or form. I could use the example of St. Paul. He had a revelation that completely changed his life. Do you accept it. No. If it happened the way he said it did then it was a revelation from God. You presumably either believe he is lying or mistaken. Nothing I or anyone else can say will convince you otherwise as near as I can tell. Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes: What would it take to convince you that an example of "divine revelation" was reliable? It isn't something that can be tested empirically. That's just the point. Why can't it be tested empirically? How do you tell the difference between something that "can't be tested" and something that failed every test?
If it happened the way he said it did then it was a revelation from God. You presumably either believe he is lying or mistaken. Why couldn't he be mistaken? “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Ringo writes:
The point is that we have a personal testimony of divine revelation. The evidence that it is true is that he completely devoted his life to Christian service and that as a result of what was largely his work the Christian church became established amongst the gentiles. Why couldn't he be mistaken? You have personal testimony, you can see the change in his life, and you can see the impact of it. That however is not enough for you to be convinced that it was divine revelation. What would it take to convince you. Empirical evidence? There never will be any. We have a choice to make. Do we beleive it or not? Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
DrJones* Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 7.6 |
The evidence that it is true is that he completely devoted his life to Christian service and that as a result of what was largely his work the Christian church became established amongst the gentiles.
And then Loki laughed and laughed and laughed cause he had succeeded in tricking another gullible person into following a false god. Live every week like it's Shark Week! Just a monkey in a long line of kings. If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! *not an actual doctor
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes: The evidence that it is true is that he completely devoted his life to Christian service and that as a result of what was largely his work the Christian church became established amongst the gentiles. That doesn't answer the question. Why couldn't Paul have been mistaken? People devote their lives to lost causes all the time - treasure hunters, UFO chasers, cryptozoologists.... How does devotion to an unsupported premise improve it?
That however is not enough for you to be convinced that it was divine revelation. Of course not - no more than the story of Alladin convinces me of magic lamps. Why should it?
Empirical evidence? There never will be any. We have a choice to make. Do we beleive it or not? That's a pretty poor basis for any belief. “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Ringo writes: That doesn't answer the question. Why couldn't Paul have been mistaken? People devote their lives to lost causes all the time - treasure hunters, UFO chasers, cryptozoologists.... How does devotion to an unsupported premise improve it? I didn't say that he couldn't be mistaken. The results of his life's work are still very evident today though, so I'm just suggesting that might be an indication that he was on to something.
Ringo writes: Of course not - no more than the story of Alladin convinces me of magic lamps. Why should it? What results do we see from anything Alladin did?
Ringo writes: That's a pretty poor basis for any belief. It's either true or it isn't. The fact that you discount divine revelation is a pretty poor basis for disbelief. Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes: What results do we see from anything Alladin did? The same results we see from anything Paul did. In both cases, we have an unverified story. If some people attribute results to "what Paul did", that doesn't make it true.
The fact that you discount divine revelation is a pretty poor basis for disbelief. You're not paying attention. I don't discount divine revelation. I just don't swallow hook-line-and-sinker every unsupported account of divine revelation. Complete lack of any evidence is an excellent basis for disbelief. “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What Is The Positive Evidence For Atheism?
Is it even a reasonable question? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Is it even a reasonable question? I don't think so. "A"theism is inherently negative. “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
You are firmly convinced that God is unknowable whereas as I am firmly convinced of the opposite. You're thinking of someone else. Like you, I believe firmly that we can know all kinds of things about god. For instance, I know that god is a myth.
Can I prove them in anyway that would satisfy you. No. If you can't convince anybody else, isn't that reason to re-examine your own belief? When everybody else thinks that you're wrong, isn't that a reason to maybe wonder if you are?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Sure, anythings possible. However, the supernatural as the cause of anything has had a terrible track record over the millenia. What's possible isn't important. What's probable is. I mean, it is possible that any of the thousands of religious myths about the origins of anything are true. So what?
quote: Just becasue you can't think of a natural explanation for why emotions exist doesn't mean nobody has. Seriously, though, you really, truly can't think of any possible reproductive advantage to, say, jealousy, or love, or anger, or kindness? I can. Edited by nator, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: David Koresh did something similar with his life, you know. As did the Buddah, Sun Myung Moon, and Joseph Smith. Did all of these people have real divine experiences? How can we tell?
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024