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Author | Topic: Prostitution-what to do | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: That was not your claim. Your claim was, from Message 14:
quote: Again I ask, why are you convinced that there's "no problem"? Edited by nator, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Jon writes: I have also not concluded that prostitution, despite being the Oldest Profession is a normal job for otherwise normal people.
One bump that's been hit is whether prostitutes are just like any other working person, or whether they are fundamentally different. Schraf has not come to realize that the former is true, and the last few posts have been directed at her inability to accept a so plainly obvious fact.Jon writes: Yes, as a matter of fact. Where do you conclude that prostitution is just another job in the Want-Ads?
You came to this conclusion after analyzing three confused kids?
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: I believe that our duty as a society is not to support them by buying them for sex but, rather, helping them come to terms with the abuse of their past. How's that workin' for ya? Prostitution is the "oldest profession" and all the eager little helpers in the world haven't fixed the problem yet. As Schraf has demonstrated, people don't necessarily want to be "helped" (at least not by self-appointed do-gooders). Why not allow them the dignity of deciding for themselves what "help" they need?
Where do you conclude that prostitution is just another job in the Want-Ads? Message 122 I don't think anybody has said that. I, for one, have suggested that prostitution should be treated as just another job - with health and safety standards, fair employment practices, etc. Instead of concentrating your attention on how they got where they are, why not deal with the situation they are in? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Jon Paine Member (Idle past 6105 days) Posts: 65 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
IMO prostitution is the same as a marriage for the night. I would even be willing to say that prostitution is even a sacred act, as sacred as marriage in current form. Traditional marriage, on the other hand, is prostitution for decades, and turns out to be much more expensive in the long run.
I read it in Hitchen's book, "God is not Great",( Amazon.com ) that in certain Muslim countries they actually perform ceremonies of marriage followed next day by divorce, to make the sexual encounter legal within Islam. I think that prostitution should be legalized worldwide. Let freedom ring! Edited by Jon Paine, : No reason given. Edited by Jon Paine, : correct first para Edited by Jon Paine, : add subtitle For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: That is only if you consider marriage about sex and financial compensation for that sex, and nothing else.
quote: That is only if you consider modern marriage as found in America and other industrialized nations only about the sex act, compensation for it, and nothing else. Do you really think that modern marriage is solely about the sex act and financial compensation for it? I'm curious; if the woman makes more money than the man in a marriage, is the man the prostitute?
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Jon Paine Member (Idle past 6105 days) Posts: 65 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:That is only if you consider marriage about sex and financial compensation for that sex, and nothing else. As you may have guessed, I have a high regard for prostitutes, call girls and the like. In response to your remark, let me say that I consider marriage to be about sex and financial compensation for that sex, and infatuation/respect/companionship. Both marriage and prostitution can offer all of it, if you approach it with the right attitude. I would even be willing to say that prostitution is even a sacred act, as sacred as marriage in current form.
quote:The definition of "sacred" that I am using is from Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) " ...4. reverently dedicated to some person, purpose, or object"... quote:No. It is about all of that plus infatuation, companionship, warmth of the heart. quote:There is such a thing as a gigolo. As long as both partners, or even a threesome, are happy with the sex and the compensation, it's all good. There are, in my opinion, as many warm hearted prostitutes and gigolos as there are married folks. And of course there are just as many, of all sorts, who are in the confidence game, including those who marry just for security. There was a time when Geisha girls were highly respected and routinely used, even by married men, in Japan. This is the model that I have in mind. Edited by Jon Paine, : subtitle correction Edited by Jon Paine, : add last line Edited by AdminPhat, : fixed excessive quotes
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Taz Member (Idle past 3321 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
I'm curious, are you for real or are you a fundamentalist christian pretending to be what you hate?
We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current. Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
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Jon Paine Member (Idle past 6105 days) Posts: 65 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
I am an Atheist/Deist/Pantheist/ recognizing only the "God of Spinoza" as Einsteirn said it. Incidentally, may I recommend to all, the Christopher Hitchens book, "God is Not Great; how religion poisons everything". It is a great read, and expresses well the view that New Atheists need to speak up and be heard, that we are the minority of the 21st Century, and the world is sorely in need of a new enlightenment. Look at the fool in the White House to see how religion poisons the mind of the electorate. I say that as a retired military member honorably discharged.
In regard to who I am, I used to be a Christian and am well aware of the scriptures which I reject as unauthoritative. IMO if God = Universe, then all talk of such a god is quite meaningless except for those who need it to feel good. Edited by Jon Paine, : sp Edited by Jon Paine, : spelling For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
In response to your remark, let me say that I consider marriage to be about sex and financial compensation for that sex, and infatuation/respect/companionship. If both spouses work, which I daresay is the general reality of marriage in the US, then who exactly is paying who?
There was a time when Geisha girls were highly respected and routinely used, even by married men, in Japan. This is the model that I have in mind. Geisha weren't whores, though; they were more like paid entertainers. Sexual activity was generally at the discretion of the geisha, at least among the reputable houses.
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Jon Paine Member (Idle past 6105 days) Posts: 65 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote: As long as everybody is happy, does it matter? Perhaps they are break even. That would be a good thing.
quote: Quite so. And I would like to see all prostitutes behave and be treated as geishas. No sexual partner is a "whore" (a term of dispersion) unless one treats him/her as such. Edited by Jon Paine, : typo For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
As long as everybody is happy, does it matter? If we're going to describe marriage as long-term contractual prostitution, then yes, it does matter. Prostitution is where one person pays another for sex, where such payments may be money, shelter, or even drugs. People who are "paying" each other sex for sex are just having sex, not engaged in "mutual prostitution" or some such. If we're going to act like words have meanings, I don't see how your average marriage represents prostitution.
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Jon Paine Member (Idle past 6105 days) Posts: 65 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:I don't know that it matters but I do like the definition. And yes, words do have meaning, as you say: quote: quote:No disagreement there. quote:I only mean to say that as far as I am concerned the marriage contract is primarily a financial contract, and if you do not believe this to be the case, you need to be made aware of what happens to property during a divorce proceeding. I do not despise marriage, just as I do not despise prostitution. I participate in either and both whenever it suits me, respecting my partners no matter what others may choose to give them as labels. And by the way, my wife quite approves. Edited by Jon Paine, : add phrase For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
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anglagard Member (Idle past 866 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
Jon Paine writes: I am an Atheist/Deist/Pantheist/ recognizing only the "God of Spinoza" as Einsteirn said it. Look at the fool in the White House to see how religion poisons the mind of the electorate. I say that as a retired military member honorably discharged. Welcome to the club, which has a membership that is too exclusive by no fault of our own. A bit off topic for this thread, care to start one that is more specific? I'm game.
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Jon Paine Member (Idle past 6105 days) Posts: 65 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
anglagard,
I am game too, and this is off topic for this thread. Would you offer your idea for a thread title and possible outline for the first post. If you would like to make that first propose post, then go ahead, and if you prefer that I start I'll do that and attempt to incorporate your ideas. JP Edited by Jon Paine, : wordsmith
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I work in retail service. I am paid to be attentive, helpful, friendly, and kind to all of my customers. However, it is a profressional relationship only. I rarely become social with any of them, and even when I do, I am not able to completely "be myself" since I am always aware that I am an employee of that shop and I represent it even when off shift. There are many socially challenged people who regularly go to shops where the staff is paid to be nice to them, because in "real life", they have a difficult time making friends or even repel people. They may believe that they have real friendships with the service staff, but they don't. The only reason they are given attention and their social inadequacies are tolerated is becasue the staff is paid to. The reason the above is relevant is to explain how the (one-way) financially-based relationship that one may have with a prostitute, even if it involves companionship of some kind, cannot ever be considered comparable to modern marriage. I am not paid, in other words, to pretend to like and/or love my spouse. Anyone who thinks they are getting real love or companionship from a prostitute is fooling themselves, just like those people I spoke of above. That is because none of it is freely-given.
Do you really think that modern marriage is solely about the sex act and financial compensation for it? quote: You can't pay someone to be your friend. You can't pay someone to love you. You can only pay someone to pretend that they are your friend, or pretend that they love you. That is not real friendship, nor real love, because it only works when things are going well. When the shit hits the fan (or the money stops), pretend love and pretend friendship will not hold up. (I do find it interesting that you mention nothing of love in your description of marriage) Edited by nator, : No reason given. Edited by nator, : No reason given. Edited by nator, : No reason given.
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