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Author Topic:   Trolls and Trolling
pelican
Member (Idle past 2601 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 16 of 37 (455531)
02-12-2008 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Hill Billy
02-12-2008 2:24 PM


edit

Edited by pelican, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Hill Billy, posted 02-12-2008 2:24 PM Hill Billy has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by nator, posted 02-12-2008 11:05 PM pelican has not yet responded
 Message 24 by obvious Child, posted 02-13-2008 10:35 PM pelican has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19318
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 17 of 37 (455588)
02-12-2008 10:59 PM


bump for bluejay
the Report Problem Posts thread is not one for discussions, so I started this one to discuss trolling issues.

This may not be the right place to report this, but I think the thread "Evolutionary superiority" is page after page of trolling (I refer specifically to nearly every message by paula rose and Hill Billy in the last two pages, and many earlier posts by the same people).

I agree with Zippy Adminnemooseus:

Right now, I say "If you don't want to participate in an act of stupidity, then don't participate in that act of stupidity". Or something like that.

Don't feed the trolls.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by nator, posted 02-12-2008 11:20 PM RAZD has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2258 days)
Posts: 12961
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 18 of 37 (455589)
02-12-2008 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by pelican
02-12-2008 7:38 PM


Re: tipping the wink
quote:
You know if I didn't know better, I could assume that you, I, Heinrik and Dameeva are the same person. We think uncannily alike.

Come to think of it so do RAZD, Molgirl and Percy.


You've got to be joking.

All three of these people have wildly different writing styles.

One is an Atheist, one is a Diest, and another believes in God.

Molbiogirl is quick to lay out the sarcasm, is very "quippy" and puts out a lot of machismo.

RAZD is very methodical and extremely thorough, researches his topics nearly to death, and is generally very detached and cool in his reponses. He is interested in evidence and rarely allows himself to be drawn into an emotional response.

Percy is eloquent and turns a phrase better than almost anybody else here. He has the ability to be a "velvet hammer" in that he can utterly crush an opponent's argument in a succinct, extremely clear, yet rather impersonal way which anticipates their emotional response and also tries to soften the blow. He explains things very well. When he is forced to really put it to somebody, he is fearfully effective, moreso because he so rarely indulges in anything even remotely resembling an ad hominem, whaich is something few of us on this forum could boast.

quote:
You know if I didn't know better, I could assume that you, I, Heinrik and Dameeva are the same person. We think uncannily alike.

Is this an admission?

Since in that list, there is only, seemingly, two posters mentioned.

You know, it is exceedingly lame and pathetic to invent support in the form of a puppet poster, and you have a lot of nerve being annoyed at anyone for any behavior towards you. Since you lied about your multiple memberships, why should we respect anything you write?

Edited by nator, : No reason given.

Edited by nator, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by pelican, posted 02-12-2008 7:38 PM pelican has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 2258 days)
Posts: 12961
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 19 of 37 (455591)
02-12-2008 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by RAZD
02-12-2008 10:59 PM


feeding the trolls is my civil disobedience
Don't feed the trolls?

How else can I protest the suspension (speaking of "acts of stupidity") of so many excellent posters in the name of "making EvC better"?

We have lots and lots of posts from hill billy and paula rose now, when just a few weeks ago we had lots of posts from Ringo and jar.

Yeah.

EvC is so much better now. It is so great.

Edited by nator, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by RAZD, posted 02-12-2008 10:59 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by RAZD, posted 02-13-2008 12:10 PM nator has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19318
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 20 of 37 (455684)
02-13-2008 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by nator
02-12-2008 11:20 PM


civil disobedience should serve a purpose
EvC is so much better now. It is so great.

I fully support Percy in his wish to improve the level of debate on his forum. Dealing with trolls is one way to do that.

We have lots and lots of posts from hill billy and paula rose now, when just a few weeks ago we had lots of posts from Ringo and jar.

One of the issues that Percy had was people carrying grudges from one thread to another, and you had to be an oldtimer to then know what is going on. One way to clear the air is to ban everyone that did that and the ones that were targets, start fresh in other words with "new" people (or new incarnations of old people).

There were also a lot of chit-chat posts and complaints, posts that are no better than troll posts. I like the streamlined system.

I think the standard is pretty easy: keep your posts on topic, support your debate with additional information when needed, don't add to problems.

How else can I protest the suspension (speaking of "acts of stupidity") of so many excellent posters in the name of "making EvC better"?

Beat your head against the wall: at least it will feel better when you stop.

The suspension of people has been pretty irrelevant in the history of the board, imho, and the use of new\alternative user IDs has been tacitly tolerated by many (simple, whatever, the twins, as well as our newcomers).

Feeding the trolls means just descending to their level and turning into one yourself, hardly a valuable position to attain.

Conversely if there were a dearth of constructive conversation and commentary on various topics, such as the Grand Canyon from the Bottom up, then an argument could be made for inviting old members back.

What do you want to accomplish?

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by nator, posted 02-12-2008 11:20 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by nator, posted 02-13-2008 12:52 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 22 by Trixie, posted 02-13-2008 4:13 PM RAZD has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2258 days)
Posts: 12961
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 21 of 37 (455700)
02-13-2008 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by RAZD
02-13-2008 12:10 PM


Re: civil disobedience should serve a purpose
quote:
One of the issues that Percy had was people carrying grudges from one thread to another, and you had to be an oldtimer to then know what is going on. One way to clear the air is to ban everyone that did that and the ones that were targets, start fresh in other words with "new" people (or new incarnations of old people).

Then I am shocked that he didn't ban me outright, since I totally hold grudges and interact with people in new threads with their full history in mind.

In fact, Percy pretty much does that, too, and reminds people of their past behavior constantly.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by RAZD, posted 02-13-2008 12:10 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    
Trixie
Member (Idle past 1321 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 22 of 37 (455749)
02-13-2008 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by RAZD
02-13-2008 12:10 PM


Re: civil disobedience should serve a purpose
I've never disagreed with oyu in the past, but I totally disagree with what you say here

I think the standard is pretty easy: keep your posts on topic, support your debate with additional information when needed, don't add to problems.

You may think the standard is pretty easy, but it seems to me that many of our "non-evolutionist" posters are not willing or able to do this and they are not being sanctioned. At the same time, many of us old-timers are trying to carry on with business as usual, yet we continually hit our head against a brick wall of dishonest debating. Yes, you're right that it stops hurting when you stop doing it, so maybe some of us should just stop.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by RAZD, posted 02-13-2008 12:10 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by RAZD, posted 02-13-2008 5:05 PM Trixie has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19318
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 23 of 37 (455758)
02-13-2008 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Trixie
02-13-2008 4:13 PM


Re: civil disobedience should serve a purpose
I've never disagreed with oyu in the past, but I totally disagree with what you say here

Good.

You may think the standard is pretty easy, but it seems to me that many of our "non-evolutionist" posters are not willing or able to do this and they are not being sanctioned.

The standard has always been lower for the creationists. Percy has also drawn a distinction between moderation on science threads and places like coffeehouse, where pretty much anything goes. Most of the posts by the newcomers have been in the coffeehouse arena. JohnFulton is doing an interesting job with global cooling, but he is presenting information and not just opinion.

At the same time, many of us old-timers are trying to carry on with business as usual, yet we continually hit our head against a brick wall of dishonest debating.

Such as never producing an argument FOR ID? But you know (and I know and they know) that there is not an argument that can be provided, that the sheet of the talking points regarding this issue was omitted in the original plan to attack education through politics. CTD and Berreta aren't able to produce evidence of something that has not been provided in the first place. Don't you thing asking for that is like asking a rhetorical question?

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Trixie, posted 02-13-2008 4:13 PM Trixie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by ThreeDogs, posted 02-14-2008 5:02 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
obvious Child
Member (Idle past 1731 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 24 of 37 (455827)
02-13-2008 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by pelican
02-12-2008 7:38 PM


Re: tipping the wink
quote:
You know if I didn't know better, I could assume that you, I, Heinrik and Dameeva are the same person. We think uncannily alike.

Come to think of it so do Razd, Molgirl and Percy.

Isn't it amazing how same personality types stick together like shit on a blanket? Thanks for the tip.


Why is that poor debaters always assume that people who disagree with them are the SAME person?

Just because you can't argue your way out of an paper sack does not mean that you can ignore reality.

If the posters are all posting at the SAME TIME and have the SAME IPs you may have an point.

But if they are posting at wildly different times from different IPs, that's just paranoia.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by pelican, posted 02-12-2008 7:38 PM pelican has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by tesla, posted 02-16-2008 1:38 AM obvious Child has responded

  
ThreeDogs
Member (Idle past 3466 days)
Posts: 77
From: noli me calcare
Joined: 01-08-2008


Message 25 of 37 (455957)
02-14-2008 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by RAZD
02-13-2008 5:05 PM


Re: civil disobedience should serve a purpose
quote:
JohnFulton is doing an interesting job with global cooling, but he is presenting information and not just opinion.

Is the information he presents, other than his opinion, the opinion of others?

quote:
The standard has always been lower for the creationists.

Do you have proof for this claim? Or do you just generally hand out the idiot treatment if it looks like a creationist? But, you do get upset when you get the treatment in return, don't you? Because you think you are of superior quality based on a few books you have read, found them interesting and now regurgitate them to set the standard. On my turf, you would be as inept as those you chide for not meeting the requirements on your turf.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by RAZD, posted 02-13-2008 5:05 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1673 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 26 of 37 (456180)
02-16-2008 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by obvious Child
02-13-2008 10:35 PM


Re: tipping the wink
i guess the guy above this post was a "troll post"?

i guess im learning. when i saw troll i figured it was time to get my shotgun out and sit on the front porch with a flashlight or something :p

ill try not to be a troll nor feed trolls in my posts.

thanks for the info on a "troll".


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by obvious Child, posted 02-13-2008 10:35 PM obvious Child has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by obvious Child, posted 02-16-2008 8:10 PM tesla has responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 27 of 37 (456182)
02-16-2008 1:55 AM


what's with the anti-trolling campaign recently?
seriously. i've known lotsa boards that bumped around "don't feed trolls" and this was never one of them. there's just something wonderfully condescending about labelling someone a troll and worthy of being ignored. it's a special kind of one-up-man-ship game of rudeness that works wonders on boards where being a dick is the cool thing that everybody just has to do. but... here? where people actually know what the term ad hominem means? i'm surprised to say the least.

Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.


אָרַח

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Hill Billy, posted 02-16-2008 10:30 AM arachnophilia has responded

  
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 2970 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 28 of 37 (456208)
02-16-2008 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by arachnophilia
02-16-2008 1:55 AM


The trolls and the trolled
there's just something wonderfully condescending about labelling someone a troll

Hmmm. Yes, it seems.

it's a special kind of one-up-man-ship game of rudeness that works wonders on boards where being a dick is the cool thing that everybody just has to do.

Does it seem to you that the dick won't admit to being a dick and instead calls someone else a dick.

but... here?

I think there are plenty of dicks here who think it's cool to be a dick, that is until they become the dickie. Then it ain't so cool.

Seems some here have spent a long time being the big dick without being seriously challenged in their dickness. So when a bigger dick shows up.......


The years tell what the days never knew.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by arachnophilia, posted 02-16-2008 1:55 AM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by arachnophilia, posted 02-16-2008 12:29 PM Hill Billy has responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 29 of 37 (456222)
02-16-2008 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Hill Billy
02-16-2008 10:30 AM


Re: The trolls and the trolled
hill billy,

you don't know the boards i'm talking about. this is an extremely level-headed and respectful group on the whole. but i am a part of other boards, too, and have been a part of other boards in the past where there were not such nice people, and no boundaries of what was and was not acceptable conduct.

take my word for it, you don't know "dick."


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Hill Billy, posted 02-16-2008 10:30 AM Hill Billy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Hill Billy, posted 02-16-2008 1:17 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 2970 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 30 of 37 (456230)
02-16-2008 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by arachnophilia
02-16-2008 12:29 PM


Re: The trolls and the trolled
take my word for it, you don't know "dick."

Is that an argument from authority? :)

I think pretty much anyone can be a dick given the wrong circumstances.

this is an extremely level-headed and respectful group on the whole.

Mmm, comparatively, yes, I agree, but there are always exceptions.


The years tell what the days never knew.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by arachnophilia, posted 02-16-2008 12:29 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
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