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Author Topic:   Senator Al Franken?
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10115
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 181 of 208 (824578)
11-30-2017 2:40 PM


Lefties on the bullseye?
I am personally disheartened by the alleged conduct of Al Franken. I have been a fan of his comedy, writing, and his political career. My appreciation dates back to at least the 80's.

But I could make similar comments about a lot of folks who are currently on the hot seat, some of whom have already been fired from their jobs. Charlie Rose, John Conyers, Bill Cosby, among others. It seems that the entertainment and News industry is rife with that kind of scandal, which I think means we lefties can expect to receive more than our share of disappointment.

Are men pigs? Yeah, it does seem that many of us are. I don't recall instances where I made mistakes about a grab or a kiss being unwanted. But then I never grabbed or tried to kiss a co-worker or subordinate, and I don't have adoring fans begging to take pictures with me.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by ramoss, posted 12-06-2017 2:23 PM NoNukes has responded

    
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6208
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 182 of 208 (824659)
12-01-2017 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Percy
11-30-2017 2:10 PM


Fifth time, Percy
Percy writes:

quote:
I again call upon Al Franken to resign.

When will you for your actions? Remember, Percy, you permanently banned your victims. In fact, one of the perpetrators admitted to setting up a sock puppet for his bigotry and you let him stay simply because he apologized.

Funny how your righteousness seems to vanish when it hits close to home.

You keep saying you believe the women. So do I, but what are you believing?

It happened to me, Percy. What do you believe about the scenario I related to you? Was I sexually assaulted?

I notice you're doing everything you can to avoid that question:

Was I sexually assaulted?

How many times must you be asked before you deign responding?

Was I sexually assaulted?


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Percy, posted 11-30-2017 2:10 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3580
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 183 of 208 (824669)
12-02-2017 2:11 AM


Do 1 or more ethics committee investigations
I haven't pursued the details, but I heard via public radio, that here in Minnesota there has been an ethics committee (3 Democrats, 3 Republicans) formed to investigate Franken.

Such should also be done in the federal Senate. Grill Franken under oath about all the accusations.

I certainly concede that many serious skeletons have come out of the Franken past closet. I still remain skeptical about the truth and/or seriousness of the accusations from the Franken becoming a Senator era.

I think that there should be some consideration of the timeline of the events. What happened in the comedian Franken era and what happened in the politician Franken era. Where the division happened? I would include the Air America Franken in the politician Franken era.

My image of the moment is that Franken is a "born again" feminist (hums "Amazing Grace"). Did he have a "dirtbag" phase and then a "good guy" phase? Or has the "dirtbag" also crept into the "good guy" phase. If indeed serious "dirtbbag" incidents have crept into the "good guy" phase, then we have a serious hypocrisy event.

Franken has been a strong supporter in progressive feminist issues (BTW, also veteran's issues). The bottom line question is, is the Senator good he has done enough to make his past forgivable?

Republicans Corker and Flake are quitting Congress because they don't like the political nature of the Trump era. I think they should stay on and fight the political nature of the Trump era. Likewise, I would like to still have Franken as part of that fight.

Both Franken and Roy Moore have substantial transgressions against women in their pasts. I ask the question, what have they done for or against women in the recent present? A "what have you done for me lately?" thing.

What I hold against Moore most of all, is that he has TWICE been removed from the Alabama Supreme Court for legal misbehavior.

Do the ethics committees thing. Do it hard and thorough. This is what Franken asked for when the whole situation came to light. We need something better than just trial via the media.

Moose


    
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6208
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 184 of 208 (824979)
12-05-2017 9:14 PM


Sixth time, Percy
How many times do you need to be asked before you swallow your pride and answer?

It happened to me, Percy. Do you believe me?

Was I sexually assaulted?


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 16294
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 185 of 208 (824996)
12-06-2017 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by Percy
11-30-2017 2:10 PM


Re: Franken: Resign Now
I again call upon Al Franken to resign, as John Conyers did yesterday amidst reports of his own style of sexual harassment. Today's news brings yet another report of Franken forcing himself upon a women: Another woman says Franken tried to forcibly kiss her

Most women will remain silent. The six who have come forward so far represent merely the tip of the iceberg.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Percy, posted 11-30-2017 2:10 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Phat, posted 12-06-2017 11:48 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 188 by Percy, posted 12-06-2017 1:26 PM Percy has responded
 Message 191 by Rrhain, posted 12-06-2017 2:54 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 195 by Minnemooseus, posted 12-06-2017 11:06 PM Percy has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10225
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 186 of 208 (825000)
12-06-2017 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Percy
12-06-2017 11:15 AM


Re: Franken: Resign Now
I think I agree. These allegations do not sound staged...they sound genuine.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Percy, posted 12-06-2017 11:15 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by NoNukes, posted 12-06-2017 11:52 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10115
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 187 of 208 (825001)
12-06-2017 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Phat
12-06-2017 11:48 AM


Re: Franken: Resign Now
I think I agree. These allegations do not sound staged...they sound genuine.

I believe almost all of the allegations, and I'm not dismissing even the ones I have some doubts about. Franken has admitted to some unacceptable behavior.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Phat, posted 12-06-2017 11:48 AM Phat has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 16294
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 188 of 208 (825010)
12-06-2017 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Percy
12-06-2017 11:15 AM


Re: Franken: Resign Now
Finally, belatedly in my opinion, a group of Senate Democrats is calling upon Senator Al Franken to resign: Senate Democrats call on Franken to resign amid further allegations of sexual harassment.

I'm an independent, neither a Republican nor a Democrat, but given the Trump takeover of the Republican party, and given the repugnance of all things Trump, it is gratifying that Democrats at last stood up for what is right, in contrast to the Republicans who are supporting Roy Moore for Senator in Alabama.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Percy, posted 12-06-2017 11:15 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by Percy, posted 12-06-2017 4:09 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
ramoss
Member
Posts: 3057
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 189 of 208 (825014)
12-06-2017 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by NoNukes
11-30-2017 2:40 PM


Re: Lefties on the bullseye?
What I think is ironic is that the republicans who have done the same thing are not being asked to resign. For example, Trump had 16 accusers , with a lot worse accusations, and you don't hear anything about him from the republicans. Blake Farenthold of Texas used 84K from the budget of the Office of complience, and yet no one is asking him to resign.

So, the question is.. why aren't the Republicans and the Democrats being held to the same level of accountability?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by NoNukes, posted 11-30-2017 2:40 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by NoNukes, posted 12-06-2017 2:48 PM ramoss has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10115
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 190 of 208 (825018)
12-06-2017 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by ramoss
12-06-2017 2:23 PM


Re: Lefties on the bullseye?
We can call for Republicans to resign, but the real accounting comes from within your party. Republicans politicians are not pushing for Trump or Roy Moore to exit politics and by and large, neither are the voters.

Let's not forget that ultimately this is not about the politicians but about our sister, aunts and daughters. We must do right by them.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by ramoss, posted 12-06-2017 2:23 PM ramoss has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by ringo, posted 12-06-2017 2:58 PM NoNukes has responded

    
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6208
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 191 of 208 (825019)
12-06-2017 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Percy
12-06-2017 11:15 AM


Seventh Time, Percy
How many times do you need to be asked before you swallow your pride and answer?

It happened to me, Percy. Do you believe me?

Was I sexually assaulted?

And if Franken must resign, why are you still here? Your own actions here on this board condoning homophobia are just as horrendous, to the point of you actually allowing one of the prime instigators to stay simply because he apologized. Is harassment of gay people not as bad?

Your harassment of those who stood up included me, Percy. I accuse you. And you've never apologized for it.

Do you believe me?


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Percy, posted 12-06-2017 11:15 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Phat, posted 12-06-2017 11:56 PM Rrhain has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13965
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 192 of 208 (825020)
12-06-2017 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by NoNukes
12-06-2017 2:48 PM


Re: Lefties on the bullseye?
NoNukes writes:

Let's not forget that ultimately this is not about the politicians but about our sister, aunts and daughters. We must do right by them.


How can you do right by them when they help to vote the Republicans in?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by NoNukes, posted 12-06-2017 2:48 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by NoNukes, posted 12-06-2017 6:28 PM ringo has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16294
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 193 of 208 (825034)
12-06-2017 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Percy
12-06-2017 1:26 PM


Re: Franken: Resign Now
A news report of another woman sexually harassed by Senator Al Franken was just posted to The Atlantic: I Believe Franken’s Accusers Because He Groped Me, Too

Who knows how many more woman are out there. My bet is that if you were young and alone and Al Franken found you attractive, you got the standard treatment.

It seems impossible that all Franken's escapades invariably ended at groping and/or kissing. I wonder if there will eventually be a report of more. Franken has been married to Franni Bryson since 1975. They have two adult children.

An editorial questioning what took Senate Democrats so long was just posted to the Washington Post: Why are Senate Democrats just now calling on Al Franken to resign?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Percy, posted 12-06-2017 1:26 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Rrhain, posted 12-08-2017 2:28 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10115
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 194 of 208 (825046)
12-06-2017 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by ringo
12-06-2017 2:58 PM


Re: Lefties on the bullseye?
NoNukes writes:

Let's not forget that ultimately this is not about the politicians but about our sister, aunts and daughters. We must do right by them.

ringo writes:

How can you do right by them when they help to vote the Republicans in?

I think that is irrelevant who my daughter votes for. But your own mileage may vary.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by ringo, posted 12-06-2017 2:58 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by ringo, posted 12-07-2017 10:46 AM NoNukes has responded

    
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3580
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 195 of 208 (825054)
12-06-2017 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Percy
12-06-2017 11:15 AM


Ethics Committee trial now
I think that the situation is best served by a formal, organized, and rigorous examination of the charges, rather than chaotic trial by the media.

Also, a footnote to something in my message 175:

Minnemooseus writes:

One last thought about the alleged state fair gropings. What kind of politician would deliberately do something to offend a voting constituent? Wouldn't that be pretty damn stupid? Would Franken be that stupid? "Hey, don't vote for me, I'm an asshole. And tell your friends not to vote for me."

Something that occurred to me after I posted the above.

At the state fair strikes me as an outstandingly poor location choice for misbehavior. A very public place, crowds of people, and lots of cameras. And Franken would be getting a lot of attention. Imagine the number of photos that were probably taken of Franken, both posed and otherwise. Seems like a high probability that some photo could catch Franken blatantly in the act if misbehavior had happened.

Yes, there certainly seems to be many legitimate charges against Franken. But how many are not legitimate, or maybe grey area legitimate.

Bring on the formal trial.

Moose

Edited by Minnemooseus, : The "message 175" thing got lost somehow.


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Percy, posted 12-06-2017 11:15 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Percy, posted 12-06-2017 11:54 PM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

    
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