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Author Topic:   Where did the flood waters come from and where did they go?
Minnemooseus
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Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 3 of 160 (214997)
06-07-2005 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Randy
06-05-2005 10:20 AM


Terry (at Terry's Talk Origins) found something interesting
The TTO topic is Wadsleyite: Global flood water repository?.
Message 1 of the above cites http://www.sciencedaily.com/...ases/1997/12/971217071316.htm
I made one reply at the TTO topic:
Moose, at TTO writes:
Terry, in message 1 says:
"...discusses a mechanism which could be both the SOURCE of water for a global flood, and a means of STORING that water afterward."
I will concede that:
1) There is a lot of water stored in the mantle.
2) There is a mechanism for moving the water from the mantle to the surface environment.
3) There is a mechanism for moving the water back from the surface environment to the mantle.
But, there is no worldly evidence that #2 happened at a rate that would produce "the flood".
There is no worldly evidence that #3 happened at a rate than would dissipate "the flood".
The worldly evidence is that #2 and #3 have happened at relatively slow rates, and in relative balance.
Essentially, there is thought to be a LOT of water in the Earth's mantle. It can be released to the surface environment via volcanism and returned to the mantle via subduction. Doing either at a rate that would produce "The Flood" and then disipate "The Flood" is the trick.
The "Wadsleyite model" would seem to share the same problems that "Runaway Plate Tectonics" has.
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Randy, posted 06-05-2005 10:20 AM Randy has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 22 of 160 (218417)
06-21-2005 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Percy
06-21-2005 9:33 AM


Just how much of the continents have ever been covered with water?
The water is not a problem for geology since geology does not believe water ever covered or mostly covered all land on earth.
In the early Paleozoic and at other times in the Earth's history, water coverage of the continents has been very extensive. Many times the seas have extended into Minnesota, to elevations that are currently in the area of 1500 feet about the current sea level. This coverage includes areas that have been tectonically stable for 1 billion plus years.
Of course, the geography and topography of the Earth has changed vastly in the past 600 million years, and as such, considerations of what the current topography is is irrelevant.
So, there is a history of great sea level rises and falls. The primary causes of these are thought to be increases and decreases in the rates of oceanic sea floor spreading - Fast spreading results in the oceanic floors rising, which displaces water onto the continents.
Explaining these sea level changes in the context of it happening over million year time spans is no problem to mainstream science. Explaining how it could happen in a year or so is vastly more difficult.
Moose

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 44 of 160 (218700)
06-22-2005 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Percy
06-22-2005 10:19 AM


Yes, flooding happened, but not at all like the YEC model
Returning to the thread's topic, modern geology does not have a water problem because modern geology does not postulate a global flood during the early Paleozoic. Or ever, for that matter.
I find that I'm more in agreement with TB's position. In the early Paleozoic (and at other times) the Earth's continental areas were considerably flooded. I do not consider the term "global flood" to be a distortion of the facts. Which isn't to say that there still weren't considerable areas of the continents that were not "flooded".
The failings of TB's position, is that he apparently is trying to compress roughly 550 million years of geologic history into roughly 1 year. Also, the flooding started long before mans "creation".
Yes, the flooding happened. It fits just fine into an old Earth model. But it does not at all fit into the YEC model.
Moose

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 Message 43 by Percy, posted 06-22-2005 10:19 AM Percy has replied

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 56 of 160 (218942)
06-23-2005 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Tranquility Base
06-23-2005 2:15 AM


You are doing a pretty good job of arguing that flooding has happened on the old Earth timescale. I, personally, will grant you that point.
Compressing all that old Earth geologic evolution into a young Earth time frame is the trick. Perhaps I will eventually get back to the YEC Geologic Column - Created with apparent age?.
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Tranquility Base, posted 06-23-2005 2:15 AM Tranquility Base has not replied

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 Message 58 by Percy, posted 06-23-2005 1:08 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 92 of 160 (219442)
06-24-2005 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Percy
06-24-2005 8:52 PM


Re: YEC water problem
Randy, message 1, writes:
The question is, what was the source of sufficient water to cover the earth 15 cubits above the mountains and where did these water go after the flood?
Percy, message 89, writes:
The topic of the thread is where did the water come from and where did it go. Fluctuations in sea level due to tectonic processes do not require the addition or subtraction of water.
Fluctuations in sea level do add water onto the continents, but not the total volume of water of the oceans/seas.
Catastropic Plate Tectonics could supply the water for a great flood, but not a "cover the earth 15 cubits above the mountains" flood.
All in all, we have the muddled mess of using old Earth evidence to try to support a young Earth "vision". The root of the problem goes back to the simple question "How old is the Earth?". Until a YEC can support there being a young Earth, there is no real rational debate possible per a young Earth "great flood". Or are TC and TB arguing an old Earth and a young flood?
Well, another muddled Moose message (mMm). Perhaps best ignored.
Moose

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Replies to this message:
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